So this attempt was fruitless, in wondering why strings should not be.
What I did find viable in looking for myself, is finding out where strings applicable features pervaded and what they were describing. Both bottum up and top down have to find approaches that emerge from a place that asks us to map this progress, and there is only one place that allows me to understand this operation.
The spectrum.
When you look at Glast operations this idealization of using the spectrum in cosmological discernation, helped to clarify why the move of strings to a cosmological operation platform was necessary from a experimental and scientific undertanding. Why was this move important?
It had to do with the amounts of energy needed to explore the principles of reductionism? How could we extend reductionism to a cosmological question about the origins of our beginning? There were no limitations as to the question of the energy that could be displayed for us all to wonder on that cosmological pallete, and here Relativity Ruled.
While complexity, asks us about the means of what is established in the forms, stands for us in our observations, as existing? Many people feel safe in what they can see?
I looked for comparative features. Like how ideas could emerge and as a good example of what math could issue from the minds of those whose good observation could speak about natures manfestations.
How good are the observatory minds of mathematicians? That would systematically describe for us this idealization of quantum reality and Relativity to join in a way that makes sense?
Macroscopic and microcosmo perceptions joined?
You say Time? Julian Barbour wants to do away with Time? Yet his goal is the same? He calls Time a human construct? What isn'taside from everythng else that we don't see? Science reveals a deeper truth?
Killing Time
Barbour posits that time is, in fact, an illusion - a measure imposed on the world by humanity. He explains this with the concept of a 'now', which he describes as a snapshot in time - a completely frozen, self-contained instant (much like a Polaroid photograph). Time is simply the measure of the space between two separate and unrelated 'nows.'
BarryTo offer that I am an engineer and a sculpture with a carear of problem solving. To offer that making me understand the final solution is to achieve making it clear to anyone.
I am somewhat like a philosopsher as you are, minus, the engineering, yet I am quite capable of peering past the veil that good minds construct.
In the end, what is taken with you might be the realization that of all the thought forms we have estanblished and created. The illusion that we move through, hides a deeper truth, and we were emersed within it the whole time. Science, verified the anomalies that we saw?
How much power then could we grant the mind who escapes this realization, to find that all the thoughts that have ever existed, were weighted with the gravity that held us to earth? That the forms, revealled a deeper realization of their beginnings?
As the temperature cooled, the solification was final and so was the idealization that manifested from the idea.
When is a pipe a pipe? Is a question about what supergravity reveals in the forms manifestation. Crystalization. What pattern emerges?
Betrayal of Images" by Rene Magritte. 1929 painting on which is written "This is not a Pipe"
Yet probablistic in nature, how could such things arrange themselves as they have?
There is a deeper question here about the reality. If the idea is born in mind how would it not burn up, comparative to the beginning of our universe? Yet nature has supplied a good analogy of bubbles that form, rise to the surface, and this could have been information that arose from the fifth dimension? It all arose form the mind of the subconsious? It was always closer to the source. Why Ramanujan and Einsteins note taking in the subtle realms help to spur the incubation of reality to a deepr level of questions.
People might say indeed, that this departure point from the sane world of forms, is the moving further into the illusions? But if we cannot find a way to free ourselves, then surely, one will accept the consequences of there reality, as they take it with them?:)
Maybe you can help me to get the facts straight as well. I am learning too.
ReplyDeleteI added a link to a article on Julian Barbour, to exemply another perspective and attempt, at joining Qm and GR( the hands on the elephant)
If time is an illusion then to see behind the veil we must first define the boundaries of the veil.Gravity and Light in the fifth Dimension.Spacetime, is a result of the higher dimensions? If we look back to the events 13 billions ago then what would this mean? From a four dimenisnal perspective how did Kaluza raise this to the fifth?
Two photons to exhibit quantum entanglement. Does this imply a connection in some direction I cannot directly observe, like time?Compton and Graviton Scatterings What is Symmetry Breaking?the role of symmetry breaking, the empirical status of symmetry principles, and so forth. These issues relate directly to traditional problems in the philosophy of science, including the status of the laws of nature, the relationships between mathematics, physical theory, and the world, and the extent to which mathematics dictates physics.
The modifier to consider is if initial conditions exist to allow the energy changes required to break symmetryIf we look at where we are now in the scheme of things then of course, there is a difference between the gravity of a earlier time(Steven Weinberg's first three minutes), to the one we find now on earth?
ReplyDeleteYet, there is information roaming freely in the bulk that passes through all things, and resonates.
Robert Laughlin does not care about this, but this does not take away from what happened at another time, and can resonate in this time?
The forms would be the crystalizations of the matter forms, yet what space would measure this relevance to dimensional perspective?
Distances” Determine Geometry
Describe an object with a table of distances between points.
Describe spacetime with a table of intervals between events
It is not my purpose in this discussion to represent the general theory of relativity as a system that is as simple and as logical as possible, and with the minimum number of axioms; but my main object here is to develop this theory in such a way that the reader will feel that the path we have entered upon is psychologically the natural one, and that the underlying assumptions will seem to have the highest possible degree of security.
—Albert Einstein
So dimensional signficance to me would be of value in the math determinations, and how we use this math to describe the variations in graviton information.
The space between a quark to quark measure would be very revealing if we did not look at the two points , but focused on the distance in between them?
I am sorry that I could not respond sooner.
ReplyDeleteTell me that two points lie in the mind of God? Tell me they are in the test tube of the architect? Are they in a seething pool at the bottom of a jungle of energy, or as the vibrations of strings stretched between membranes.Of course I am taken back to the early days of euclid first couple of postulates.
We know that euclidean geometries fall short of explaining higher dimensional realities.
So we have to expand our minds to consider non euclidean views. Who were the authors of this beginning and we learn very quickly how to percieve a flat world with no gravity, to one of gravity?
Bernhard Riemann once claimed: "The value of non-Euclidean geometry lies in its ability to liberate us from preconceived ideas in preparation for the time when exploration of physical laws might demand some geometry other than the Euclidean." His prophesy was realized later with Einstein's general theory of relativity. It is futile to expect one "correct geometry" as is evident in the dispute as to whether elliptical, Euclidean or hyperbolic geometry is the "best" model for our universe. Henri Poincaré, in Science and Hypothesis (New York: Dover, 1952, pp. 49-50) expressed it this way.
But it continues to here.
Klein's Ordering of GeometriesA theorem which is valid for a geometry in this sequence is automatically valid for the ones that follow. The theorems of projective geometry are automatically valid theorems of Euclidean geometry. We say that topological geometry is more abstract than projective geometry which is turn is more abstract than Euclidean geometry.http://www.ensc.sfu.ca/people/grad/brassard/personal/THESIS/node21.html
A new post was produced on entropy and relates to our discussion on symmetry breaking? It can all be quite confusing for me sometimes.
Sorry about links in previous post
ReplyDeleteKlein's Ordering of Geometries
What is not proven to me is to what level energy follows this model. I have seen structures fail that followed a perfect mathematical model.I actual have two links for consideration, and one of these deals specifically with the question of energy following this modelThe second links expands the thinking in terms of quantum gravity My education in this arena is rudimentary and fragmented.Then you can relax as I am a laymen myself, who has wondered through a lot of information over the years. LOts to learn and it never seems to end
ReplyDeleteHi Barry,
ReplyDeleteThe kinds of questions you are asking are important, becuase they are the experimental basis that has been understood in Glast, versus analogies I am portraying in graviton scattering link, as I have shown.
Compton-and-Graviton-scatteringsGlast determination and gamma ray detection using calorimeter helps us to organize our thoughts in regards to that early universe perspective.
How could we talk about photon interaction at early universe beginnings considering the energies involved? Cosmologically this is very revealling in terms of blue and red shifting, but how would lensing and time dilation help in this regard?
The energy consideration in considering the graviton scattering would have to be specific to the information released in the early event?
Hi Barry
ReplyDeleteIt occurs to me that every approach we take to understand the universe comes back to one theme. All becomes dependent as motions in time. Consider then the unstoppable force and the immovable object.The view here then as I read your post, points to a dynamical realization about how we percieve the dynamcis of the universe and how we explain it in a way that we can understand.
Here the Friedmann equation is very important in this regard, as it sets up how we can see where dark matter might lead perspective to opposition, like black and white and the interplay.
Kaku's vision of looking from the bridge into the eyes of the carp looking at the surface of the water, helps one to orientate this move to non euclidean views and what happens at GRB manifestation in the early universe.
INfomration is left in the bulk, and gravitonic condensation, saw us back to blackhole growth, would be part of this dynamcial feature of the universe as rejuvenation?
Here I would point to the matrices involved and how we would see this feature disquised in, early universe exchanges revealled in glast determinations. This will become the subject of a new thread soon.
In contrast to the arrow of time?
It leaves the idealization of how we see what has always existed? How do we percieve the universe then if it becomes cyclical in nature? It would have to have features we recognize in this rejuvenation process, that would take us through all the phases of science, and it's manifestation?
Back to the energy that has been released, and is recovered, to further ths expansive feature?
As strange as this may sound and in contradiction to the thermodynamical issues, where is this energy source amongst us, that we have never really been that far from the origins of ths beginning. And only needed to find the pathway to this early universe beginning.
The early events are with us now?:)
Your second post is important and I will address this too shortly.
What a model does is help us understand the unknown by comparing it to what is known. It would take many models to tackle the theory of everything and even then we would have to arrive at some new concepts beyond the models.Lhc and linear experimentation would be a case where this model would be sutable for examination?
ReplyDeletePhenix article was develoing in my mind when you spoke about supperfluidity as a perception of that early dynamcial realization of the early universe. For me this vision is closing in on the origins, and is part of the spectrum of possibilties.
I injected cosmic particle interactions as a phase considerations of the early universe and atmospheric interactions as a viable observation to microstate blackholes?
I updated Shakespearean Quandry?
In the compressible super fluid model a cyclical universe is not established. We would have to examine black hole metrics to project further. I am considering this for another post.Blackhole productionBefore such a collapse is initiated in bubble, the boundry conditions would have recogized such limitations?
Cavitation produced by sound waves and moved inside the bubble would have determined the bubbles size, and energy released. The recognition of the schwarzchild radius and would reveal energy valution in the continued expression of inflation? Hence cyclcial in that inflation would reveal swiss cheese universe with microstate blackholes, and the continued expansion.
Part of this contiued push is recognition of the Bose NOva and anti-matter production from such gravitational collapses in jet recognitions.
This dynamical realization, forced me to consider not only geometrical realizations on cosmological proportions, but redirected my thought to topological use of genus figures of the sphere in the quantum geometries and planck scale recognitions.
Do you follow this thinking?
We would have to examine black hole metrics to project further. I am considering this for another post.-------------
ReplyDeletePlease go ahead here as I would like to see thinking you are developing.
Hi Barry
ReplyDeleteConsider that gravity may have two components. Pressure exerted by space-time displacement and field forces that arise from torsional fluctuations in space-time.----------
This may seem really strange that such a "gravitational collapse" would produce a blackhole?
So while this blackhole is developing and sucking in gravitonic infomration, how much energy is being imparted to the blackhole structure? It's expanding and has cooling temperatures(?), yet it will reach certain limitiations, before it's collapse again?
The Elastic Nature------
Bubble nucleation demonstrates appearent gravity and anti-gravity behaviors as a scaler function.-----
It is very difficult for me to separate the vacuum flunctuation in bubble collapse, as not effecting the spacetime fabric.
While we may see energy expansion from the re-collapse of a previous state( a star that can no longer support itself) to a collapse of the blackhole again(re-ignition), would have made this energy part of a cyclical process, that would include gravitonic information, and even while, photon dispersal is obvious, the photon is held to the event, and can traverse vast distances in terms of billions of years. All the while gravitonic expression is free to roam in the bulk, and yet, we see and make use of this in a continuing process of rejuvenation?
Further use of this analogy in terms of bubble structure, minus the buble intesections, as possible connection between monte carlo methods of quantum gravity percpetions in the use of simplex's, I hold off from this particpation, in respect of the continuity and move away from discrete recognitions.
To me defining states that would cater to such bubble technologies would help orientate the mind towards these early universe conditions. Require this support?
Without it I see no possibilties of cyclical nature being exploited in the blackhole process of rejevuenation.
Consider that in the presence of very strong gravity there is so much compression that torsion is restricted. Light does not propegate here so black holes emit no light?Part of your thnkng here would be correct as far as I seethe effect of the photon held to sucha event.
ReplyDeleteBut it is more then this. I speak about the planck epoch and the first three minutes and I allude to this in U(1)[electromagnetism] configuration as seen in the diagram in post of yesterday the 24 of Febuary. How does this arise inthe standard model.
I am looking for speciifc informtaion to point in this direction.
If this model of space-time is correct then there emerges classes of energy defined by their reactions to the lattice.The QCD direction shared by John Ellis points to the method of apprehension that we would speak about.
ReplyDeleteWhen you refer to lattice, I would need to be corrected as to how you are seeing this. I am thinking of certain triangulations and the monte carlo method, demonstrated in quantum gravity.
As Scattering amplitudes?
Hi Barry
ReplyDeleteTriumph of the Standard ModelThis is the article I was referring too, and I give a link to the other universal expression of the cosmo, between John Ellis's statements.
U(1) can be found here for further reading. See this information in context of the mapping of expression. And we have to see how the standard model is being expressed in those first three minutes.
Particle physicists describe this as saying that the symmetry of SU(3)xSU(2)xU(1) is spontaneously broken down to SU(3)xU(1) at the electroweak scale of about 100GeV.
What is the ? represent?
ReplyDeletePhysics at this high energy scale describes the universe as it existed during the first moments of the Big Bang. These high energy scales are completely beyond the range which can be created in the particle accelerators we currently have (or will have in the foreseeable future.) Most of the physical theories that we use to understand the universe that we live in also break down at the Planck scale. However, string theory shows unique promise in being able to describe the physics of the Planck scale and the Big Bang.One has to work their way to the microscopic view of the universe to understand what is happenng within those first three minutes?
String theory tells us about this time(high energy). Also, if we wanted to comprehend the expansive process and did not see the singuarity that was to have been derived from the blackhole collapse, oneneeded to see the nature of the universe breathing and rejuvenating.
Ultimately, the conclusion I am reaching is that the sum of all that string theory is, defines the Calab Yua models as movements that could might be traced in windings. The difference, in the 1R radius of this circle, helps us to define the amplitutde of the string and change in the tube as it expands and contracts in this calabi yau model
This is all very abtract to me, and I am learning here.
One of the most dramatic recent results in string theory is the derivation of the Bekenstein-Hawking entropy formula for black holes obtained by counting the microscopic string states which form a black hole. Bekenstein noted that black holes obey an "area law", dM = K dA, where 'A' is the area of the event horizon and 'K' is a constant of proportionality. Since the total mass 'M' of a black hole is just its rest energy, Bekenstein realized that this is similar to the thermodynamic law for entropy, dE = T dS. Hawking later performed a semiclassical calculation to show that the temperature of a black hole is given by T = 4 k [where k is a constant called the "surface gravity"]. Therefore the entropy of a black hole should be written as S = A/4.
ReplyDeleteBarry,
ReplyDeleteA photon is massless, as is a graviton. I believe this to be the case and and you can research for verification.
When you think of photon(a representatve of electromagnetc waves) over spacetime fabric any mass impression, the photon will follow this curve in the spacetime. If itr is extreme curvature as in the blackhole the distance travelled will be very short, to not at all?
Gravitons as representative of gravitational waves reveal the nature of the spacetime fabric.
Gravitons are free to roam in the bulk. Their concentration will reveal extreme cases of curvature, like blackholes.
Photons are held to the branes. Any event ithe early universe wil reveal tha nature of the event and cannot separate itself from it. The gravity waves produced can.
The information gathered in LIGO is considered in context of what those events release in terms of gravitational waves. The gravitons wil release specific informtaion in the structural anaysis of that event, although, not held to it like the photon.
Hi Barry,
ReplyDeleteThere are two articles that I wnated to put forward here to help orientate ones thinking in terms of a measure.
Searching for Changes in the Fine-Structure Constant Using Atomic Clocksand the experiments that define Lorentz and CPT symmetry breaking and how they would test this.
G -> H -> ... -> SU(3) x SU(2) x U(1) -> SU(3) x U(1). Here, each arrow represents a symmetry breaking phase transition where matter changes form and the groups - G, H, SU(3), etc. - represent the different types of matter, specifically the symmetries that the matter exhibits and they are associated with the different fundamental forces of natureU(1) =electromagnetism. If you look at early event in universe creation these phase changes-> would amount to speciifc times in the universe's unfoldment. Look at standard model construction and the graph I posted for you about the question mark.
Unification of all forces would be including grvaity as the grvaiton being a force carier would add to this standard model and make it complete. The negy valuation here was given and you showed this.
What shall we call this?We can sum this up as follows: Gauss invented a method for the mathematical treatment of continua in general, in which " size-relations " (" distances " between neighbouring points) are defined. To every point of a continuum are assigned as many numbers (Gaussian coordinates) as the continuum has dimensions. This is done in such a way, that only one meaning can be attached to the assignment, and that numbers (Gaussian coordinates) which differ by an indefinitely small amount are assigned to adjacent points. The Gaussian coordinate system is a logical generalisation of the Cartesian co-ordinate system. It is also applicable to non-Euclidean continua, but only when, with respect to the defined "size" or "distance," small parts of the continuum under consideration behave more nearly like a Euclidean system, the smaller the part of the continuum under our notice.In looking back towards maxwells equation and let there be light, certain idealizations became significant to me when I understood the move from eucldiean to non euclidean views.
ReplyDeleteGauss as a teacher of Reimann was instrumental in the geometrical interpretions that were lead into GR. Gauss was very happy in hearing his student speak.
This hallmark signature leaving the fifth postulate, understanding Giralamo Sacherri, and the new world reveallled in dimensinal analysis, is directly related to that missing energy( read my latest entry article called the same.
But now having gone in to the dynamical nature of quantum mechanics what geometry/topology would serve us well, to talk about continuos things without tearing, and this is where topologcial understanding make themselves known(use of genus figures and string amplitutdes expressed in feynman'spath integral designs.
Understanding strings then from a quantum mechancal understanding, the relationship to topological forms we see where such Genus figures now become part of the relationship of bubble technologies in the vacuum interpretaions.
I am not altogther sure I am being consistent here in alluding to the bubble tehnolgies , but having moved beyond the 10 dimensions of string theory to M theory this culmination is sought in our views of bubble formations in that early universe? there is supersymmetricla realizations when see in Andrey Kravstovs anmation of the square and the distrbution of that energy all of a sudden becoming cosmics strings?
I would need corrections here for sure.
But I parallel the name of this perspective as a leap in what happened with gaussian coordiante understandng and the understanding of the metric. Q<->Q measures reveal these interesting set of circumstance for us, and help us dee the significance of the gravitons presence in the bulk and what this energy is saying about it's congregation there. The dynamical nature of these curvatures in a quantum mechanical condition would be interesting in terms of quanum geometry.
Mapping Quark ConfinementI need to do some homework here:)
ReplyDeleteIN the meantime I was focusing more on the dimenisonal aspect that the graviton gatherings implies to me. Tells us something about the energy in these locations in the bulk.
When I say Graviton, any gathering that is quite dense would reveal what?
If we looked in between these two quarks what would the energy reveal? Strong curvature would imply greater energy?
A possible explanation currently gaining ground in theoretical circles is that the fundamental scale of gravity is not really up at the Planck scale, it just seems that way. According to this school of thought, what is actually happening is that gravity, uniquely among the forces, acts in extra dimensions. This means that much of the gravitational flux is invisible to us locked into our three dimensions of space and one of time.
ReplyDeleteConsider, by analogy, what two-dimensional flatlanders would make of three-dimensional electromagnetism. To them, the flux lines of the force between two charges would appear to travel in their planar world, whereas in reality we know that most of the flux lines would spread out through a third dimension, thus weakening the force between the two charges.
Hi barry,
ReplyDeleteI am having a difficult time getting my brain to work properly. Commitments and being pulled in many directions don't help.
What is important is to be lead into the world of higher dimensions and how would we do this? Some do not like this inference, and have moved it to subjects of spiritual significance?
I think this is what has happened to my views when I look at what we are capable of envisioning in our minds and the actions we take in life could be weighted in these dimensions. I hope that make sense.
But there is a true scientific explanation that I am trying tocapture, as well as explainthese abilities of mind to connect to these higher dimensions. Is this a incorrect view in your eyes?
HyperSpace : A Scientific OdysseyMichio Kaku
This trick is easily extended. For example, if we generalize the theory to N dimensions, then the N dimensional gravitational field can be split-up into the following pieces (see fig. 5). Now, out pops a generalization of the electromagnetic field, called the "Yang-Mills field," which is known to describe the nuclear forces. The nuclear forces, therefore, may be viewed as vibrations of higher dimensional space. Simply put, by adding more dimensions, we are able to describe more forces. Similarly, by adding higher dimensions and further embellishing this approach (with something called "supersymmetry), we can explain the entire particle "zoo" that has been discovered over the past thirty years, with bizarre names like quarks, neutrinos, muons, gluons, etc. Although the mathematics required to extend the idea of Kaluza has reached truly breathtaking heights, startling even professional mathematicians, the basic idea behind unification remains surprisingly simple: the forces of nature can be viewed as vibrations in higher dimensional space.
Barry,
ReplyDeleteI will be taking a break from our exchanges for a while.
There is a lot of good information out there for you to ponder over.
Physics forum is a good place for your more important questions. The Kaku link in previous post will take you there.