The Old Wise Man

This post is materializing because of a post written by a Don McLeod on a article written at NPR 13.7 Cosmos and Culture called, " Facing Cancer, With A Robot Surgeon By My Side, by  Barbara J. King.

Don McLeod writes,

When I had cancer it appeared in my dreams as a bear.This probably sounds odd to you, crackpot even, given your background in the rational field of science, but dream symbols and science are not mutually exclusive. As my ultimately successful treatment progressed the bear began to reduce in size from an adult to a cub. Once cured, I was still anxious about the possibility of the cancer recurring, which prompted another dream which I will relate: I was out for a walk. I left the city and found myself walking on a trail in the wooded hills. It was a pleasant enough walk but at some point it occurred to me that if I were to encounter a bear on the trail I would be in trouble because I had no weapon, and if I climbed a tree the bear would climb up after me. As I pondered my vulnerability I heard footsteps approaching from behind. Turning around I saw a tall, thin man of about eighty years wearing a hat. He appeared spry and was long of stride. He appeared to me to be someone who had walked the outdoors for many years. So I stopped him and related my concern about bears and asked him how he handled such encounters. He told me bears posed no problem for him because he always carried "these". Then he opened his left hand which was full of vegetables of different varieties. He told me that whenever he encounters a bear he tosses the vegetables off to the side of the trail, causing the bear to chase after the veggies and thereby leaving him unmolested. Then I woke up. Dreams can often be confusing and difficult to interpret but his one required no deep thinking. The old hiker was the Wise Old Man, the seminal archetype of the collective unconscious. As we say in the hood, "This old dude be knowing s**t." I took his advice and became a vegetable hound, and now, thirteen years later I remain cancer free. The vegetables didn't cure my cancer of course, modern medical technology did that. But my unconscious, through dreams and images gave me insight about my cancer. In my case it was reassuring, yours may or may not be. Nonetheless, you may be entering the biggest knock-down-drag-out fight of your life and you will want all the information and help you can get. Your unconscious psyche will help you so pay attention to your dreams, write them down, and see what they tell you. You're a scientist. Observe your psyche and remain open to possibilities. Psyche is as much a part of Nature as everything else. (I add bold for emphasis)

I of course sympathize with Barbara J. King for the rode ahead and wish her all the best in the surgery. The purpose of this post is about how as individuals the use of power in symbols as relayed in Don's dream are effective at describing a process that was unfolding in him and the progression toward wellness being demonstrated when he saids, "As my ultimately successful treatment progressed the bear began to reduce in size from an adult to a cub."

This post is not about something you have to do in order to cure an illness, but more about what occurs on an everyday level that such events can travel deep inside you whether you are aware of the effect this has on you or not.

I saw correspondence in the type and illustration of the dream. It came from a earlier time in my life, that was very much similar in its subjectivity. This happen when I was quite young, and was already entertaining what it was I wanted to do with my life.

So the Old Wise Man becomes a symbol of sorts, and for those of you who have had similar experience, this is a profound imagery that is encapsulated in an old man with a white cloak and long white beard. How traditional then this figure that he is to reside in one's own head,  and that we are in a sense able to project the wisdom of self for our viewing.

So thus,  such imagery is to encapsulate something that is quite powerful as to convey knowledge that works to alleviate the concerns that runs deep in our souls. It is an answer to the question of what it is that is happening with our everyday life awareness. This is a consequence of daily living that somehow transcends the every day world we see  as a revelation that runs counter to that normal objective world.

The correspondence and power that was given was an understanding on such a deep level that it became a catalyst of sorts for the examination of such things in other people. Don's comment was a recognition for me of this powerful level of understanding that took place  as it was of a healing that occurred for him.

So also I added the labels of Socrates and Daemon at the bottom of this post. This was to exemplify facets of this understanding which grew from the experience I had at an age of about 12 years old. I also relay this information in a post given with regard to the Park.

The Park was written to show, that levels of perception that run deep inside are equal factors to which information may be drawn into oneself, given the framework of the reality that you had created. The Old Wise represents an aspect of your higher self which is to say that consciousness at that level does not find itself impeded from gaining true knowledge of those beyond ourselves to have then actually answer events in our every day lives.

So what you have done in essence is created a script that can become intelligible for the offering of information beyond the scope of inherent thinking suited to that daily process.

So it was important that I also examine efforts to help our minds be taken to levels of consciousness that may impart such opportunities for information to be given.  The basis for this thought process was to believe,  for me,  that all information will and has always existed.  It is that we only had to be reminded of such correspondences to say, such information even exists, but that such processes exist also in us all.

We Are Not So Ancient

Elizabeth Gilbert on nurturing creativity

Elizabeth Gilbert muses on the impossible things we expect from artists and geniuses -- and shares the radical idea that, instead of the rare person "being" a genius, all of us "have" a genius. It's a funny, personal and surprisingly moving talk.

The author of Eat, Pray, Love, Elizabeth Gilbert has thought long and hard about some large topics. Her next fascination: genius, and how we ruin it.

See Also: On the Question of a Daemon

On the Question of a Daemon

( Arthur Koestler on Creativity )

 You’ve seen it before? Perhaps you found it scrawled in goat’s blood on the walls of an abysmal abbey, written in the crabbed hand of one who purported to teach the whole of the law...Ain Soph

Just so you understand that what happens in the past may have set the course for humanity in thinking such and such so  is with some concern that anyone would think that what I had to say resounds with such historical distaste of what the future might bring?

Historical Figures Lead Us to the Topic of Entanglement

 
We do no want to be ever so arrogant that we cannot see the seeds of the past had paved the way for our understanding of that future and spread the progression of the subject so as to be well founded in experimental processes necessary.

But, said Timarchus, I see nothing but stars leaping about the hollow, some carried into it, and some darting out of it again. These, said the voice, are Daemons; for thus it is. Every soul hath some portion of reason; a man cannot be a man without it; but as much of each soul as is mixed with flesh and appetite is changed, and through pain or pleasure becomes irrational. Every soul doth not mix herself after one sort; for some plunge themselves into the body, and so in this life their whole frame is corrupted by appetite and passion; others are mixed as to some part, but the purer part still remains without the body, — it is not drawn down into it, but it swims above, and touches the extremest part of the man’s head; it is like a cord to hold up and direct the subsiding part of the soul, as long as it proves obedient and is not overcome by the appetites of the flesh. That part that is plunged into the body is called the soul, but the uncorrupted part is called the mind, and the vulgar think it is within them, as likewise they imagine the image reflected from a glass to be in that. But the more intelligent, who know it to be without, call it a Daemon. Therefore those stars which you see extinguished imagine to be souls whose whole substances are plunged into bodies; and those that recover their light and rise from below, that shake off the ambient mist and darkness, as if it were clay and dirt, to be such as retire from their bodies after death; and those that are carried up on high are the Daemons of wise men and philosophers. See:A DISCOURSE CONCERNING SOCRATES’S DAEMON. - Plutarch, The Morals,

The question raises the idea that with "matter trained" we had lost our way in terms of what matters. What we work has somehow become the the part of the belief that we no longer hold to what spiritually might be capable of, but steadfastly have chosen matter as the principle of some higher intelligence?

Intuition

Like Truth.....how is it one could have found any use of such an subjective tool while recognizing something inherent in the process of discovery? Your thoughts?

Here's two quotes for consideration.

Intuition and Logic in Mathematics by Henri Poincaré

On the other hand, look at Professor Klein: he is studying one of the most abstract questions of the theory of functions to determine whether on a given Riemann surface there always exists a function admitting of given singularities. What does the celebrated German geometer do? He replaces his Riemann surface by a metallic surface whose electric conductivity varies according to certain laws. He connects two of its points with the two poles of a battery. The current, says he, must pass, and the distribution of this current on the surface will define a function whose singularities will be precisely those called for by the enunciation.

Felix Klein on intuition

It is my opinion that in teaching it is not only admissible, but absolutely necessary, to be less abstract at the start, to have constant regard to the applications, and to refer to the refinements only gradually as the student becomes able to understand them. This is, of course, nothing but a universal pedagogical principle to be observed in all mathematical instruction ....

I am led to these remarks by the consciousness of growing danger in Germany of a separation between abstract mathematical science and its scientific and technical applications. Such separation can only be deplored, for it would necessarily be followed by shallowness on the side of the applied sciences, and by isolation on the part of pure mathematics ....

In context of examination while not mathematically trained I was always curious about the process unfolding.... the foundations and their beginnings. The Sound Of Billiard Balls

Dirac became proof for me of the issue of being abstract while needing the image to go with it? Symbolically recognized while analytically described. So his axiomatic stance lead me to question why how and why Feynman designed his "word art(feynman diagrams)?"

When one is doing mathematical work, there are essentially two different ways of thinking about the subject: the algebraic way, and the geometric way. With the algebraic way, one is all the time writing down equations and following rules of deduction, and interpreting these equations to get more equations. With the geometric way, one is thinking in terms of pictures; pictures which one imagines in space in some way, and one just tries to get a feeling for the relationships between the quantities occurring in those pictures. Now, a good mathematician has to be a master of both ways of those ways of thinking, but even so, he will have a preference for one or the other; I don't think he can avoid it. In my own case, my own preference is especially for the geometrical way.Paul Dirac

Part of finding this truth is a deep examination(deep play) of what has been perpetuated so far and a meta look synopsis at how to gather and explain it so as to move on.

The deeper truth is an image that has to be explained? Part of our innateness has left an impression on the soul and recognizing the "time capsule" that is mandala in origins, is the method by which the soul engages what explodes back into their consciousness? This arises from a subconscious level and so too having traveled there you recognize what happens when you touch the very core of your being?

While I may refer to the geometric as inherent in such a truth in expression as some light behind us shining our shadow on the cave walls, these geometries can be covered by ancient designs and can lead the soul back to this beginning?

While you were looking out there, you were looking inside.

***

On developing the intuition I had a comment that I wanted to bring together here so it is understood that while we may hold science as a standard within our question for knowledge it is also required that we learn to understand somethings about ourselves in that process.

See: Understanding our Angels and Daemons

Oligarchy- A Historical Look from Plato's Dialogues

Backreaction: A little less conversation, a little more science please

An Oligarchy (Greek Ὀλιγαρχία, Oligarkhía) is a form of government in which power effectively rests with a small elite segment of society distinguished by royal, wealth, intellectual, family, military or religious hegemony. The word oligarchy is from the Greek words for "few" (ὀλίγος olígos) and "rule" (ἀρχή arkhē). Such states are often controlled by politically powerful families whose children are heavily conditioned and mentored to be heirs of the power of the oligarchy.[citation needed] Oligarchies have been tyrannical throughout history, being completely reliant on public servitude to exist. Although Aristotle pioneered the use of the term as a synonym for rule by the rich, for which the exact term is plutocracy, oligarchy is not always a rule by wealth, as oligarchs can simply be a privileged group. Some city-states from Ancient Greece were oligarchies.( bold added by me for emphasis)

Change "public servitude" to "consumerism" and this exemplifies for many what democracies have become?


***

Not only from a historical perspective do I introduce this material, but to indicate, that I along with many, have become disillusioned with the current politicization structures.

A desire then, for a more "introspective look" would then be accorded in a search for the political ideal. It was done for an "economic ideal," so it must be mustered in the same vain as the Economic Manhattan project where scientists had gathered for perspective. A desire then for a "21st Century View" toward a "just society."

See: Search function for concept here.


A search function listed by percentage of importance was then done in respect of Plato's commentary to be revealed in the Dialogues to offer perspective.

Plato : LAWS

Persons of the dialogue: An Athenian stranger - Cleinias, a Cretan
- Megillus, a Lacedaemonian
Translated by Benjamin Jowett - 60 Pages (Part 2)

Laws-Part 2 Page 23

Ath. I will do as you suggest. There is a tradition of the happy life of mankind in days when all things were spontaneous and abundant. And of this the reason is said to have been as follows: - Cronos knew what we ourselves were declaring, that no human nature invested with supreme power is able to order human affairs and not overflow with insolence and wrong. Which reflection led him to appoint not men but demigods, who are of a higher and more divine race, to be the kings and rulers of our cities; he did as we do with flocks of sheep and other tame animals. For we do not appoint oxen to be the lords of oxen, or goats of goats; but we ourselves are a superior race, and rule over them. In like manner God, in his love of mankind, placed over us the demons, who are a superior race, and they with great case and pleasure to themselves, and no less to us, taking care us and giving us peace and reverence and order and justice never failing, made the tribes of men happy and united. And this tradition, which is true, declares that cities of which some mortal man and not God is the ruler, have no escape from evils and toils. Still we must do all that we can to imitate the life which is said to have existed in the days of Cronos, and, as far as the principle of immortality dwells in us, to that we must hearken, both in private and public life, and regulate our cities and houses according to law, meaning by the very term "law," the distribution of mind. But if either a single person or an oligarchy or a democracy has a soul eager after pleasures and desires - wanting to be filled with them, yet retaining none of them, and perpetually afflicted with an endless and insatiable disorder; and this evil spirit, having first trampled the laws under foot, becomes the master either of a state or of an individual - then, as I was saying, salvation is hopeless. And now, Cleinias, we have to consider whether you will or will not accept this tale of mine.
Cle. Certainly we will.
Ath. You are aware - are you not? - that there are of said to be as many forms of laws as there are of governments, and of the latter we have already mentioned all those which are commonly recognized. Now you must regard this as a matter of first - rate importance. For what is to be the standard of just and unjust, is once more the point at issue. Men say that the law ought not to regard either military virtue, or virtue in general, but only the interests and power and preservation of the established form of government; this is thought by them to be the best way of expressing the natural definition of justice.
Cle. How?
Ath. Justice is said by them to be the interest of the stronger.
Cle. Speak plainer.

***

Plato:POLITEIA

Persons of the dialogue: Socrates - Glaucon - Polemarchus
- Adeimantus - Cephalus - Thrasymachus - Cleitophon
Translated by Benjamin Jowett - 71 Pages (Part 4) - Greek fonts

The ruin of oligarchy is the ruin of democracy; the same disease magnified and intensified by liberty overmasters democracy —the truth being that the excessive increase of anything often causes a reaction in the opposite direction; and this is the case not only in the seasons and in vegetable and animal life, but above all in forms of government.

True.

The excess of liberty, whether in states or individuals, seems only to pass into excess of slavery.

Yes, the natural order.

And so tyranny naturally arises out of democracy, and the most aggravated form of tyranny and slavery out of the most extreme form of liberty?

How Do You Stop a Oligarchy?

Was introduced from a "consumerism point of view." It was directed toward the idea of governments who "gather money" to operate "their ideal structures of government" while depleting the resources of the "private citizen for that government operation."

Tax grabs to support that positions?

I am trying to orientate myself amidst these political terrain and would like nothing better then to be set straight to remove wrong thinking directed toward finding a "just government?" How do you define a "just government?"

Searching for the "Ideal Government for the 21st Century?"


***

Then is Now?

The ruin of oligarchy is the ruin of democracy; the same disease magnified and intensified by liberty overmasters democracy-Plato:POLITEIA

Can we recognize the decay in the processes of democratization?

It is when we are left with this "feeling of the electorate" to see that they have lost control of the government, that one senses this alienation from the process of democracy. Recognizes "agendas that are being played out," that were not part of the party stance with which they promised to govern before an election.

So what recourse then to see that the processes of legitimacy are recognized and drawn out, that it will become part of the rule of law and implemented, that there was really nothing that could have been done, citing petitions and initiatives toward recall.

Not so much now is there, as to what party and their allegiance, but to the recognition of democracy in decay that we all can now recognize.

The incapacitated people

The people feel disenfranchised. And it is disenfranchised. But the parliament) is directly legitimized by the electorate (at country level, the provincial assemblies. All other constitutional bodies, President and Chancellor (in progress), derive their legitimacy from it. Shift the political choices but from the circles of power in parliament and coalition rounds, who knows the Constitution does not, therefore, is sidelined by the Bundestag and abused only later to formally rubber-stamp, is a de facto policy demokratiefrei.

Sure I may point to "another country" to demonstrate the social construct of the democracy in question, but it is "not far" from what we can identify within our own, that we see the signs of the time?

Understanding our Angels and Daemons

So, every "story line" is about a Journey? IN Angel and Demons, we follow the story of Professor Robert Langdon.

The Vatican summons Professor Robert Langdon (Tom Hanks) and Vittoria Vetra (Ayelet Zurer) from CERN to help them solve the Illuminati's threat, save the four preferiti, and find the hidden bomb. Langdon listens to the Illuminati message and deduces that the four cardinals will die at the four altars of the Path of Illumination. See: Angels and Demons

So in relation, I pointed out that Dan's Brown's book which I read, and the  film I have yet to see has it's differences, while we see the transfer from one medium to the next.   Same storyline. Pirsig's touch with the recognition of the Chautauquas, "the traveling tent-show Chautauquas that used to move across America, this America, the one that we are now in, an old-time series of popular talks intended to edify and entertain, improve the mind and bring culture and enlightenment to the ears and thoughts of the hearer."

Anyway, I presented the Dialogues of Plato and the Plays of William Shakespeare as forums in which characters real or imagined, help to move forward the reader under "ideological progressions," as if,  dealing with this inductive/ deductive realization of information and probable outcomes once given the scenarios which are displayed for the mind to entertain.

Earlier in this thread I had mentioned Robert Pirsig and it is here as well I mention, "The Beautiful Mind." Both situations here are recognition of the Demons both indivudals(John Forbes Nash) under go,  as their story written is told in a life lesson and in John Nashes case, a film. Must we recognize that genius courts closely the aberrations of a sane and inquisitive mind, who looses touch with reality. Not so different then, when one who holds to this "other agenda of the Illuminati" in the Angel here Demons story here?

After suffering a nervous breakdown, Pirsig spent time in and out of mental hospitals from 1961 – 1963. After undergoing a psychiatric evaluation, he was diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia and clinical depression, and was treated with shock therapy. Pirsig had made a progressive recovery and had discontinued psychotherapy in 1964. He later began working as a freelance writer. See: Robert Pirsig

So who was Robert Pirsig's Demon(Daemon)?

The words daemon, dæmon, are Latinized spellings of the Greek δαίμων (daimôn),^[1] used purposely today to distinguish the daemons of Ancient Greek religion, good or malevolent "supernatural beings between mortals and gods, such as inferior divinities and ghosts of dead heroes" (see Plato's Symposium), from the Judeo-Christian usage demon, a malignant spirit that can seduce, afflict, or possess humans See:Daemon (mythology)

If one has the chance to read Robert Pirsig's book Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance , one should most certainly do so. I had seen this book lying around over the years and never really gave it much notice until a gentlemen spoke to me about the issue of "Quality and the Good."

Being a reader of Plato and seeing this influence in science today, I was after something quite substantial as I look to see how ideas could enter the mind, and that in general, not to conceive of it as an portend of evil( that Daemon), but as an acquisition of the inquiring mind of the student to reveal "a higher wisdom" resides in each of us.

This was part of setting the stage if you might, to recognizing this "dual nature,"  as an inductive/deductive relation we use in our relationship with the world. So in this sense,  a scientific position and responsibility of becoming an open person to receive information,  as you delve ever deeper into the nature of things. I am not saying this is the way it is, just that it is a "point of view" I was able to gather, once one does their  own homework. Pays attention to the politics. What is "self evident?"

So indeed Noise presents a "climatic realization of assumption after assumption." In the real world,  we are only armed with what we are expose too? Is this not the way it seems? Why such medium exposure might be thought of,  as to the "way the world is according too," which point of view. You have to be given the power back for discernment of what it means to you and ever the role of a scientific mind as to inquiry, for being responsible.

The conclusion of the whole matter is just this,—that until a man knows the truth, and the manner of adapting the truth to the natures of other men, he cannot be a good orator; also, that the living is better than the written word, and that the principles of justice and truth when delivered by word of mouth are the legitimate offspring of a man’s own bosom, and their lawful descendants take up their abode in others. Such an orator as he is who is possessed of them, you and I would fain become. And to all composers in the world, poets, orators, legislators, we hereby announce that if their compositions are based upon these principles, then they are not only poets, orators, legislators, but philosophers.

Plato, The Dialogues of Plato, vol. 1 [387 AD] PHAEDRUS.

It is important to know then that Robert Pirsig's Angel or Daemon, was Phaedrus( depends on how you look at it in terms of what was given to Pirsig). As real or imagined the story line in the Journey across America with his son, was the realization of the lost years in an identity that went on a excursion, and never came home until the breakdown. John Nash had his own characters in the film, discovered later on, were the imaginings of a mind,  lost in the battle of what is real with paranoid schizophrenia. For John Nash it was always then later on in dealing with reality the struggle of who John Nash was while facing these imaginary people.

So while I say "real or imagined" one understands fully here that while we had identified the use of characters under the notion of "creative writing of Plato or of Bacon's Shakespeare,"  it was apparent that in the cases that I have sighted of Robert Pirsig and John Nash, that while sick mentally,  genius and brilliance were courted.

While I would point to John Nashes mathematical astuteness while sick, I am more wanting to point out the "Quality and the Good" of Pirsig as I continue. This is an understanding of that finer attribute of theoretical thinking that we ventured too. To see if reality by experimentation thusly engendered, then qualifies. How indeed did progression be marked if it did not allow one to see anew, with a new perspective and experiments are validated. In sociological thinking of our everyday,  how did our assumptions prove we were thinking theoretically, while assessing the politico defalcates of position and inherent of a party? What is the basis of this discernment then we can discriminate the truth of applied rights of constitutions written for democracies were written for freedoms and rights?