Although Aristotle in general had a more empirical and experimental attitude than Plato, modern science did not come into its own until Plato's Pythagorean confidence in the mathematical nature of the world returned with Kepler, Galileo, and Newton. For instance, Aristotle, relying on a theory of opposites that is now only of historical interest, rejected Plato's attempt to match the Platonic Solids with the elements -- while Plato's expectations are realized in mineralogy and crystallography, where the Platonic Solids occur naturally.Plato and Aristotle, Up and Down-Kelley L. Ross, Ph.D.
Discover Magazine-06.16.2008-Photography by Erika Larsen-Article-"Is the Universe Actually Made of Math? Unconventional cosmologist Max Tegmark says mathematical formulas create reality."It makes no difference at this point, which mathematics you choose to delve into the new model perceptions, because if one were to see how a projective geometry was built on previous platforms, then how is it we can see the universe in ways that the WMAP shows unless the mathematics could show that there was more to it then an artists picture displayed? You had to know the depth of the artists skill.
It does not mean that you are devoid of the possibilities of venturing where the philosophies of mathematics or science can venture. It is understanding that by taking yourself to a certain position in mind, an indecomposable one, one that is self evident, then it is understood that the deductive/inductive efforts bring you to a peak realization, contained in the "Aristotelean Arche."
This position is the question that one assumes in life, that having exhausted all efforts, and having seen all the information, one is to move their previous stalled position into a "third revolution" of a kind you might say?:)
See:Backreaction: Discover Interview with Tegmark
Also see:Theoretical Excellence
Hi Plato,
ReplyDeleteI see you have extended Bee’s theme a bit with this post. As I related over there I don’t believe that Tegmark has any real intention to push this much further then he has as his main intent is to point towards something that many others turn away from. Of course you know that my philosophical centre dismisses any ontology that be singular such as Tegmark proposes and yet I would both agree and insist that it forms to be part of the good, which is truly the reason, purpose and therein goal of reality.
Best,
Phil
P.S. I think your link to Bee's post is aimed wrong as it has one arrive at the end of the comments and not the beginning of the post. If this were the continuum as Telmark might imagine I would say there is no distiction to be found, but since the post is finite I would suggest here it is relevamt :-)
Hi Plato,
ReplyDeleteJust as a follow up to my last comment, for me although it is true that mathematics or what it represents could well be the truth of reality and yet by itself is sterile and barren, for what decides that only those parts of it that form to reveal symmetry and economy be chosen . No for me the dynamics is missing which you call the emotive, Plato called beauty and what I and others might call simply desire. Even the ancients six thousand years past knew this for they said:
“Not even nothing existed then. No air yet, nor a heaven. Who encased and kept it where? Was water in the darkness there? Neither deathlessness nor decay. No, nor the rhythm of night and day: The self-existent, with breath sans air: That, and that alone was there. Darkness was in darkness found. Like light-less water all around. One emerged, with nothing on. It was from heat that this was born. Into it, Desire, its way did find: The primordial seed born of mind. Sages know deep in the heart: What exists is kin to what does not. Across the void the cord was thrown, The place of every thing was known. Seed-sowers and powers now came by, Impulse below and force on high. Who really knows, and who can swear, How creation came, when or where! Even gods came after creation's day, Who really knows, who can truly say when and how did creation start? Did He do it? Or did He not? Only He, up there, knows, maybe; Or perhaps, not even He.”
-From the Hindu “Rig Veda- The Creation Hymn
So as the truth holds the form it is only desire that can have it to be as it must be understood that to have good there must also be reason. Even Robert M. Pirsig failed to see that all cannot be simply quality if there be no reason to have it and for me that has simply meant desire.
Best,
Phil
Unconventional cosmologist Max Tegmark says "mathematical formulas create reality."
ReplyDeleteIn the science fiction TV series Doctor Who, the Time Lords build TARDIS by performing 'block transfer computations' which causes an extradimensional space to come into being, the extradimensional space being the 'pocket dimension' that is the interior of the TARDIS.
Some of the most profound ideas are found in scifi.
-Guy Incognito
In a number of his papers (may be from 1998) M Tegmark puts forward the conjecture that our Universe is a "Mathematical Universe" when the "Theory of Everything" may be an "ensemble theory".
ReplyDeleteThat’s correct, but the questions arisen – what is this "ensemble";
What are it’s properties?
- On these questions somebody can find some answers in
http://arxiv.org/abs/physics/0703043
V5…
hi Phil,
ReplyDeleteCurrently in California, so I will try and reply more fully when I can.
Best
Into it, Desire, its way did find: The primordial seed born of mind. Sages know deep in the heart: What exists is kin to what does not. Across the void the cord was thrown, The place of every thing was known. Seed-sowers and powers now came by, Impulse below and force on high.
ReplyDeleteYour attachment is reason, and I fully acknowledge this. You were right to recognize the emotive forces.
What exists outside exists inside.
Emotive force is a covering. The abstraction of mathematics is the schematics and hidden in the emotive forces. You had to know where to look.
Best,
Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteI read the article and understand the method by which you have logically explained Information.
The main advantage of the concept suggested above is that the Information concept is strictly logically
grounded and is self-consistent. The main backward - because of we are always in the Information set
and, as it follows from the main advantage, can not go out from this set – we can not to answer (at least
we now) – what is besides of the set “Information”, if It exists?
Though there is also some pleasant advantage - anybody knows all about total existing Information set –
any point of a human brain contains the information: “in this brain point there are no…”. So a little
thing remains – to learn - how to read this information?
All the time you are building, you are also working on another level.
How are you to read this information and being constricted by that methodology even though it is consistent within it's own framework, it falls short as it suggests.
I'd have to give this time to explain how information although coming to us from vast distances, Ligo is still a method by which we can "reconstruct the event" although it uses up vast resources.
Then by ligo arm flexing a translation occurs, and that by multiple location a consistency check.
So I would then say such emotive forces are them self constructed of "motives units of measure"(MUM) that are lightlike and coloured.:)
These are based on the "Colour of Gravity" with which I have constructed which are light like, and in essence, the information with which such "constructions exist," in the same vein that you build by such a methodology herein described in the article you give.
Hi Plato,
ReplyDelete“Emotive force is a covering. The abstraction of mathematics is the schematics and hidden in the emotive forces. You had to know where to look.”
Well it appears once again we have found some common ground. As for knowing where to look, it starts with what’s around you. To keep to the theme contained I hope that the vacation you are sharing with your better half and grand children provides more of this for all.
Best,
Phil
Phil:As for knowing where to look, it starts with what’s around you.
ReplyDeleteBeing empty nestor's for some years now, it takes the children to remind one of the parenting.
Also it is a life struggle to maintain and work toward what is right and becoming and it is never done.
We are in Oregon right now and are two days away from home.
Best,