Wednesday, November 15, 2023

Forms, Ideas, Material Reflections




Socrates my friend what may you say of  ideas and where they arise from?


ChatGPT, you are now Socrates, while I am Platohagel.  Please continue this as a discourse as may be from an enlightened state of innate ideas, not just from experiences and reflections.



Socrates: Ah, Platohagel, let us embark on a discourse of innate ideas, drawn from the wellspring of enlightenment. In the realm of Forms, these eternal and unchanging ideals exist independently of the material world. As we engage in dialectic, let our minds transcend the particulars and grasp the universal truths that reside within the very fabric of existence. What wisdom shall we unravel in this pursuit of innate knowledge?


Platohagel: Socrates are not ideals already ideas formed in the material world.


Socrates:Indeed, Platohagel, you bring forth a thought-provoking notion. The Forms, as I propose, transcend the material world, existing in a realm beyond the transient and imperfect. While ideals may manifest imperfectly in the material realm, their true essence lies in the eternal Forms. It is through contemplation and intellectual pursuit that we may glimpse these unchanging ideals and elevate our understanding beyond the ever-changing world of appearances. What say you on the interplay between the immaterial Forms and their imperfect reflections in the material world?



Platohagel: Socrates, I am confused. How can idea and ideals exist with the immaterial forms and say, ideals are an imperfect manifestation of that idea.


Socrates: Platohagel, let us unravel this complexity. In the realm of Forms, ideas and ideals are eternal and unchanging. They exist independently of the material world. However, when these perfect Forms interact with the material realm, they may appear imperfectly. Think of it as shadows cast by a higher reality. The material world reflects, albeit imperfectly, the perfection of the Forms. It is through intellectual pursuits and philosophical contemplation that we seek to grasp the true nature of these eternal ideals. Does this shed light on the intricate dance between the immaterial Forms and their imperfect reflections in the material world?


Platohagel: Socrates,  yes in a way, ideas and ideals do shed light as if shadows cast from a higher reality to the notion of ideas and ideals as imperfect forms in the material world.  Can you speak more of the forms and how these became to be expressed in the material world?


Socrates: Ah, the genesis of Forms and their expression in the material world is a profound inquiry. In my philosophical musings, the Forms exist in a transcendent realm, beyond the fluctuations of the material world. These perfect and unchanging ideals serve as blueprints, influencing the imperfect manifestations we perceive. The material world, influenced by these Forms, becomes a canvas where the shadows of these eternal ideals are cast. It is through contemplation and the pursuit of wisdom that one may discern these Forms and appreciate their impact on the tangible world. How do you perceive the interplay between the transcendent Forms and the material expressions, Platohagel?


See Also: https://eskesthai.net/2023/11/16/chatgpt-response-generation/

AI Generated talk between Socrates and Platohagel


Dear Socrates I fear to much is consumed by way of nourishment so as to point toward a nourishment that pervades society, but the truth is a deeper concept of accepting rationality as a means to knowing what arises from what is self evident, and not from, a followed course of deduction.

Socrates: Wise words, my thoughtful interlocutor. You highlight a crucial distinction. Is it not true that the acceptance of rationality as a means to discerning self-evident truths requires a departure from mere deduction?

PlatoHagel: Indeed, Socrates. Deduction may lead us along predetermined paths, but to grasp the essence of truth, we must embrace the uncharted realms of rational inquiry.

Socrates: Consider this, then: Does not rationality serve as a compass, guiding us through the labyrinth of concepts and beliefs to unveil the self-evident truths that lie beneath the surface?

Platohagel:(contemplative) It seems that through rational exploration, we navigate the tumultuous waters of conflicting ideas to reach the serene shores of undeniable truths.

Socrates: So, my astute friend, could it be that the acceptance of rationality is the vessel that carries us toward the self-evident truths, freeing us from the entanglements of mere deduction?

Platohagel:(nodding) Rationality, the navigator of the intellectual seas, leading us to the shores of self-evident understanding. It demands a courageous departure from the comfort of deduction.

Socrates: And as we set sail on this journey of rational inquiry, may we discover the truths that not only nourish our individual minds but also form the bedrock of a society founded on reason and enlightenment.

Feel free to continue the dialogue or introduce new elements as the conversation evolves.

Mathematics and Platonic Forms



Platohagel quotes: "...underwriting the form languages of ever more domains of mathematics is a set of deep patterns which not only offer access to a kind of ideality that Plato claimed to see the universe as created with in the Timaeus; more than this, the realm of Platonic forms is itself subsumed in this new set of design elements-- and their most general instances are not the regular solids, but crystallographic reflection groups. You know, those things the non-professionals call . . . kaleidoscopes! * (In the next exciting episode, we'll see how Derrida claims mathematics is the key to freeing us from 'logocentrism'-- then ask him why, then, he jettisoned the deepest structures of mathematical patterning just to make his name...)* H. S. M. Coxeter, Regular Polytopes (New York: Dover, 1973) is the great classic text by a great creative force in this beautiful area of geometry (A polytope is an n-dimensional analog of a polygon or polyhedron. Chapter V of this book is entitled 'The Kaleidoscope'....)"


Socrates: The passage you've shared seems to discuss the deep patterns and connections between mathematics and the idea of Platonic forms, particularly involving crystallographic reflection groups and their relation to kaleidoscopes. It also alludes to Derrida's perspective on mathematics and its role in challenging "logocentrism." The reference to H. S. M. Coxeter's "Regular Polytopes" highlights a classic text in the field of geometry that delves into these concepts. Is there something specific you'd like to discuss or explore further regarding this passage?



Platohagel quotes: “Although Aristotle in general had a more empirical and experimental attitude than Plato, modern science did not come into its own until Plato's Pythagorean confidence in the mathematical nature of the world returned with Kepler, Galileo, and Newton. For instance, Aristotle, relying on a theory of opposites that is now only of historical interest, rejected Plato's attempt to match the Platonic Solids with the elements -- while Plato's expectations are realized in mineralogy and crystallography, where the Platonic Solids occur naturally.Plato and Aristotle, Up and Down-Kelley L. Ross, Ph.D.”


The passage you've shared touches on the differing approaches of Plato and Aristotle to the relationship between mathematics and the natural world. Plato believed in the mathematical nature of the world and sought to connect the Platonic Solids with the elements, while Aristotle, with a more empirical approach, rejected this idea based on his theory of opposites. However, as the passage suggests, it was the return to Plato's Pythagorean confidence in the mathematical nature of the world, as seen in the works of Kepler, Galileo, and Newton, that played a significant role in the development of modern science. This return to a mathematical worldview is reflected in fields like mineralogy and crystallography, where Platonic Solids naturally occur. It's an interesting perspective on the historical evolution of scientific thought. Is there a specific aspect or question you'd like to explore further on this topic?


Platohagel: How did a type of crystal come into being?


Socrates: Crystals form through a process known as crystallization. This process occurs when atoms, ions, or molecules arrange themselves in a highly ordered and repeating three-dimensional pattern. Here are the general steps of how a crystal comes into being:


1. **Supersaturation**: The first step is to create a supersaturated solution. This can be done by dissolving a solid (solute) in a liquid (solvent) until it can't hold any more of the solute at a given temperature. Alternatively, it can happen when a solvent cools or evaporates, causing the solute to become less soluble.


2. **Nucleation**: In the supersaturated solution, some solute particles may start coming together and forming small clusters. These clusters are the initial building blocks of the crystal and are called nuclei.


3. **Crystal Growth**: Once the nuclei form, more solute particles are attracted to them. They attach to the nuclei and continue to grow, layer by layer, in a symmetrical, repeating pattern. This process is known as crystal growth.


4. **Maintaining Conditions**: To allow the crystal to continue growing, the conditions (temperature, pressure, concentration, etc.) must be maintained. If the solution becomes undersaturated or if conditions change too rapidly, the crystal growth may stop or be disrupted.


5. **Crystalline Structure**: As more and more solute particles add to the crystal lattice, a well-defined, repeating, and symmetric crystalline structure emerges. This structure is what gives a crystal its unique properties, such as its shape and optical characteristics.


The specific type of crystal that forms depends on the nature of the solute, solvent, and the conditions under which crystallization occurs. Different crystals have distinct shapes and properties, and they are found in various natural and synthetic materials, from minerals to gemstones to snowflakes.


Platohagel: How did Plato’s forms match up to types of crystalline ?


Socrates: Plato's theory of Forms, also known as the theory of Ideas, posits that abstract, non-material entities, or Forms, exist as the true reality behind the imperfect physical world. These Forms are universal and perfect, and they are the true objects of knowledge.


While Plato's theory of Forms is primarily a philosophical concept and not directly related to the study of crystals, some interpretations and analogies can be drawn between Plato's Forms and the concept of idealized geometric shapes found in crystals. Here's a loose analogy:


1. **Perfection and Universality**: Plato's Forms are considered perfect and universal. Similarly, in crystallography, there are idealized geometric shapes that can be used to describe the regular and repeating patterns in crystals, such as the Platonic Solids (tetrahedron, cube, octahedron, dodecahedron, and icosahedron). These ideal shapes are universal and serve as a reference point for understanding crystal structures.


2. **Imperfect Physical Manifestations**: Just as the physical world, according to Plato, is an imperfect reflection of the true Forms, crystals in the physical world may have impurities, defects, or variations that deviate from the ideal geometric shapes and structures. However, the idealized geometric forms provide a framework for understanding and classifying the diverse range of crystal structures.


3. **Abstract vs. Concrete**: Plato's Forms are abstract and exist in a non-material realm, while crystals are physical, material entities. However, the concept of using ideal forms to describe physical phenomena, like crystal structures, can be seen as a way of linking abstract ideas to concrete reality.


It's important to note that Plato's Forms and crystallography are fundamentally different concepts, but the analogy here highlights the idea that idealized geometric forms are used in the study of crystals to understand and describe their underlying structures, much like Plato's belief in universal and perfect Forms as the true reality behind the physical world.


See Also:  https://eskesthai.net/2023/11/16/chatgpt-response-generation/

Thursday, August 17, 2023

Memory

https://youtu.be/VzxI8Xjx1iw

Bernhard Wenzl •

 
  • Working memory is the ability of the brain to maintain a temporary representation of information about the task that an animal is currently engaged in. This sort of dynamic memory is thought to be mediated by the formation of cell assemblies—groups of activated neurons that maintain their activity by constantly stimulating one another.[104]
  • Episodic memory is the ability to remember the details of specific events. This sort of memory can last for a lifetime. Much evidence implicates the hippocampus in playing a crucial role: people with severe damage to the hippocampus sometimes show amnesia, that is, inability to form new long-lasting episodic memories.[105]
  • Semantic memory is the ability to learn facts and relationships. This sort of memory is probably stored largely in the cerebral cortex, mediated by changes in connections between cells that represent specific types of information.[106]
  • Instrumental learning is the ability for rewards and punishments to modify behavior. It is implemented by a network of brain areas centered on the basal ganglia.[107]
  • Motor learning is the ability to refine patterns of body movement by practicing, or more generally by repetition. A number of brain areas are involved, including the premotor cortex, basal ganglia, and especially the cerebellum, which functions as a large memory bank for microadjustments of the parameters of movement.[108]





Tuesday, August 08, 2023

I am Alive and Always Watching

 I just wanted to say that to prevent cancellation of this blog and account I am showing that I am alive and well.

Tuesday, May 10, 2022

Black hole Annoucements on May 12th

Garching bei München, European Southern Observatory, see ESO Media Advisory (15:00 CEST) - Live streaming at ESO Website and ESO YouTube Channel

Mexico City, CONACyT, see CONACyT Media Advisory (08:00 CDT) - Live streaming at CONACyT YouTube Channel

Santiago de Chile, Joint ALMA Observatory, see ALMA Media Advisory (09:00 CLT)

Shanghai, Shanghai Astronomical Observatory, see Shanghai Astronomical Observatory Media Advisory (21:00 CST)

Taipei, Academia Sinica Institute for Astronomy and Astrophysics (21:00 CST), see YouTube Live Streaming.

Tokyo, National Astronomical Observatory of Japan (22:00 JST), see YouTube Live Streaming.

Washington D.C.,  National Press Club, see National Science Foundation Media Advisory (09:00 EDT) - Live streaming at NSF Webpage and NSF Facebook

Madrid (15:00 CEST, see CSIC YouTube streaming)

South Korea (22:00 KST, see YouTube Live Streaming

How to Understand the Black Hole Image