Dealing With a 5d World

A black hole is an object so massive that even light cannot escape from it. This requires the idea of a gravitational mass for a photon, which then allows the calculation of an escape energy for an object of that mass. When the escape energy is equal to the photon energy, the implication is that the object is a "black hole".

A lot of us understand I think that the cosmological world we had been lead through by Einstein, has geometrical principals embued with this organizational ascent. So too alongside of this equative understanding, the geometry must be understood as well, as the role we have in develoing to non euclidean geometry.

The basic principals have direct physics results as we learn to explore these potentials.



If we are taken to understand this progression, how did we get here? Are there higher dimensions without the geometry?



Measuring the depth of ideas

Lubos saids:Instead, let us ask: is quantum mechanics deep? Yes, I think that quantum mechanics is perhaps the deepest idea we know. It is once again a deformation of a conceptually simpler picture of classical physics. Much like the speed of light is finite in relativity and it unifies space and time, the Planck constant is finite in quantum mechanics which allows us to identify the energy with the frequency, among many other things - quantities that would otherwise remain as independent as space and time without relativity.

Lubos Motl talk about the depth of ideas, for me, leads to this progression of geometry. Talked about it in a way I saw leading and consenting ideas to this progression, by developing these deeper qualities of "quantum mechanics".

We had to understand then that such a physics progression would follow hand in hand, with the ideas of geometrical expression? So how were we lead into the non-eucldean world?



So too then, how would it be, if we use a different method to extoll the holographical understanding in how we percieve the natural abilties of information related to this geometrical form? Bekenstein Bound holds important clues about this fifth dimensional attribute?

Holography encodes the information in a region of space onto a surface one dimension lower. It sees to be the property of gravity, as is shown by the fact that the area of th event horizon measures the number of internal states of a blackhole, holography would be a one-to-one correspondance between states in our four dimensional world and states in higher dimensions. From a positivist viewpoint, one cannot distinquish which discription is more fundamental.

Pg 198, The Universe in Nutshell, by Stephen Hawking

How would then would we reduce Higher dimensions to relativity?

Superstring theory rules in the 5-D spacetime, but a so-called conformal field theory of point particles operates on the 4-D hologram. A black hole in the 5-D spacetime is equivalent to hot radiation on the hologram--for example, the hole and the radiation have the same entropy even though the physical origin of the entropy is completely different for each case. Although these two descriptions of the universe seem utterly unalike, no experiment could distinguish between them, even in principle.

History of Gravity and the Equivalence Principle

History rerun on bar ringings?


That's it: the bar is in place.

Our word gravity and its more precise derivative gravitation come from the Latin word gravitas, from gravis (heavy), which in turn comes from a still more ancient root word thought to have existed because of numerous cognates in related languages. For example, compare the Old English word grafan (grave), the Old Slavic pogreti (to bury), the Sanskrit guru (weighty, venerable), and Greek barus (heavy, grievous) among others. These words have common meanings of heaviness, importance, seriousness, dignity, grimness; the modern, physical sense of a field of attraction did not appear until Newton's time. Indeed, for Galileo, Newton, and scientists up to the beginning of the twentieth century, gravity was no more than an empty name for the phenomenon, a fact that they were well aware of.

How the Natural World has Been Painted

While some are intrigued by EM waves, I have a fascination for GW and the way we can portrait the natural world, we do not see.



The sounds of gravitional waves are probably too low for us to actually hear. However, the signals that scientists hope to measure with LISA and other gravitational wave detectors are best described as "sounds." If we could hear them, here are some of the possible sounds of a gravitational wave generated by the movement of a small body inspiralling into a black hole.

There is a lesson in this, when you learn to hear what billiard balls sound like, and what the resulting "click" could represent.

Savas Dimopoulos

Here’s an analogy to understand this: imagine that our universe is a two-dimensional pool table, which you look down on from the third spatial dimension. When the billiard balls collide on the table, they scatter into new trajectories across the surface. But we also hear the click of sound as they impact: that’s collision energy being radiated into a third dimension above and beyond the surface. In this picture, the billiard balls are like protons and neutrons, and the sound wave behaves like the graviton.

It helps you to see the world as a very much different place then the one we are accustomed too.

Can these be applied to such romantic reasoning, that we are encouraged to poetry and other things, where such idealizations, are battling for whose interpretation is right? What portraits are these that there is no romm for them to hang for observation? A glimpse of Mona Lisa's smile, that if taken from various perspective it would seem to be always looking at you? How could you distance yourself, if you are what you think?

Quantum Gravity

The jump from conventional field theories of point-like objects to a theory of one-dimensional objects has striking implications. The vibration spectrum of the string contains a massless spin-2 particle: the graviton. Its long wavelength interactions are described by Einstein's theory of General Relativity. Thus General Relativity may be viewed as a prediction of string theory!

Imagine the very canvas is string theories very fabric of the cosmos:)


J. Metzinger Le Gouter/Teatime (1911)

"Dynamical triangulations" and such, that such a painting will explore the greater potential of perception, from varying perspectives?

Art Mirrors Physics Mirrors Art

The French mathematician Henri Poincaré provided inspiration for both Einstein and Picasso. Einstein read Poincaré's Science and Hypothesis (French edition 1902, German translation 1904) and discussed it with his friends in Bern. He might also have read Poincaré's 1898 article on the measurement of time, in which the synchronization of clocks was discussed--a topic of professional interest to Einstein as a patent examiner. Picasso learned about Science and Hypothesis indirectly through Maurice Princet, an insurance actuary who explained the new geometry to Picasso and his friends in Paris. At that time there was considerable popular fascination with the idea of a fourth spatial dimension, thought by some to be the home of spirits, conceived by others as an "astral plane" where one can see all sides of an object at once. The British novelist H. G. Wells caused a sensation with his book The Time Machine (1895, French translation in a popular magazine 1898-99), where the fourth dimension was time, not space.

Shakespearean Quandry Has Limits

As a measure how far can this be taken? Some like to think like Smolin, and Smolin's reference to Glast is a important one:)This defines his limits.

Others, have decided to go beyond this.:)

Torsors Made Easy

John Baez:

In Newtonian mechanics, we can only measure energy differences, not energies themselves. The reason is that we can add any real number to our definition of energy without changing any of the physics. This means it doesn't make much sense to ask what the energy of a system is - we can answer this question only after picking an arbitrary convention about what counts as "zero energy". What makes more sense is to talk about the difference between the energy of a system in one state and the energy of that system in some other state.

We can express this in terms of torsors as follows: energy differences lie in the group of real numbers R, but energies themselves do not: they lie in an "R-torsor".

In quantum mechanics, we can only measure relative phases, not phases themselves. The reason is that we can multiply the phase of a quantum state by any unit complex number without changing any of the physics. So, it doesn't make much sense to ask what the phase of a quantum state is - we can answer this question only after picking an arbitrary convention. What makes sense more sense is to talk about the relative phase between two states that differ only by a phase.

We can express this in terms of torsors as follows: relative phases lie in the group of unit complex numbers, which is called U(1), but phases themselves do not: they lie in a "U(1)-torsor".

Deep Impact craters on the moon.

What do they reveal about the moon's geological structure?


The colors in this image can be used to ascertain compositional properties of the materials making up the deep strata of these two regions.

One day I'd like to think we will be precise enough to ascertain all geological structure of the planets by info that we don't have just yet in terms of gravitational perspective? Maybe we can insert in between space of Mendeelev's model one day?

These are good indicators to help us see the nature of the planets organization constituents, as fundamental characters, of that same planet?



Studying gravitational models also help in this direction. The unique character is amazing once we thought the sphere on whch we live was to be so round, when in fact, from that same gravitational perspective, this is just not so.:)

Lee Smolin's Case for Background Independence

While we were privy to the debate between Susskind and Smolin in a previous post, the origins and definitions have been drawn from the deeper requirements of an ideology.

Where do these begin, and we find the inner compulsion of a scientist to find the means and defintions to extend the basis of our perceptions on a basis that both agree.

Lubos reaffirms this many times, and is in concert, as many in string theory continue to hold to what this desire should be.

Lubos saids:

Some of Lee's points can be agreed with, for example:

It is desirable to find a background independent formulation of string/M-theory

Such a formulation would likely to answer the questions whether the landscape approach to string/M-theory is correct; why it's not; what it should be replaced with.

This post represents a becoming. From those deeper levels, such a stage must be set?

Good for Lee Smolin, and the work he has been doing for laying a foundation, that all see, must reside to an synoptic closure, before such progressions become. If it got Lee smolin and others thinking, then, it served it's purpose, and those who say, a waste of time, would have undertsood then, Lee Smolin would not be where he is today on the pdf file here written.

So has Lubos has then directed our perspective in relation to how Lee Smolin sees the issues, and we have found the direct relationship and difference between how M Theory apporaches and How LQG does.

Lubos Motl saids:

An attempt to revive Mach's principle means to argue that the gravitational waves do not exist. It is a struggle to return us not only before General Relativity; it is a program to return the humankind to the pre-Newtonian era and the dark Middle Ages. Some people may be permanently impressed by Mach's principle and some people may find it shallow after a closer scrutiny. These two groups may be composed of equally nice people. But the difference is that the critics of Mach's principle have a good physical intuition; its advocates are philosophers who are unable to think analytically and quantitatively and they prefer to insist on prejudices that can be shown flawed by a five-minute-long quantitative argument.

There are catelysts all around, that ask for this deeper resolve to come forth. Asking for greater potentials in our visionistic qualities, to understand, that we can see this world very much differently? What pathway had been established then that Lee Smoln would attack this from another perspective held within the ideas of Special Relativity, that holds the idealization before the roads to gravitational understanding had been theoretically proven by Einstein.

Lubos Said:>

OK, let me start with the questions about relationism and Mach's principle. I highly recommend you the second popular book by Brian Greene, "The Fabric of the Cosmos", where the relative vs. absolute debate is covered in the first chapters. And the presentation is very nice.

How often the debate on such levels of what seems has been lacking in string/M theory that such voices extolled would relinquish it to paths unexperimentally challenged? They would have missed the opportunity ofsuch a debate brought forth from the Dialogos of Eide.

It is a strong statement which arises from the Platonic school, that such a discussion would reveal, that what is in the Heaven of ideas, could descend to minds and those who ask, those who embroil themselves, to questions of what it is, that makes the ideas of reality, a part of the natural world.

Lee Smolin:

The aim of this paper is to explain carefully the arguments behind the assertion that the correct quantum theory of gravity must be background independent. We begin by recounting how the debate over whether quantum gravity must be background independent is a continuation of a long-standing argument in the history of physics and philosophy over whether space and time are relational or absolute. This leads to a careful statement of what physicists mean when we speak of background independence. Given this we can characterize the precise sense in which general relativity is a background independent theory. The leading background independent approaches to quantum gravity are then discussed, including causal set models, loop quantum gravity and dynamical triangulations and their main achievements are summarized along with the problems that remain open. Some first attempts to cast string/M theory into a background independent formulation are also mentioned.

The relational/absolute debate has implications also for other issues such as unification and how the parameters of the standard models of physics and cosmology are to be explained. The recent issues concerning the string theory landscape are reviewed and it is argued that they can only be resolved within the context of a background independent formulation. Finally, we review some recent proposals to make quantum theory more relational.

Kilometric Radiation?

So we use physics in ways to change the way we see? Here are some examles from the Cassini Project and Wikipedia.

Cassini Plasma Spectrometer (CAPS)
The Cassini Plasma Spectrometer (CAPS) is a direct sensing instrument that measures the energy and electrical charge of particles such as electrons and protons that the instrument encounters. CAPS will measure the molecules originating from Saturn's ionosphere and also determine the configuration of Saturn's magnetic field. CAPS will also investigate plasma in these areas as well as the solar wind within Saturn's magnetosphere.[1]

Cosmic Dust Analyzer (CDA)

The Cosmic Dust Analyzer (CDA) is a direct sensing instrument that measures the size, speed, and direction of tiny dust grains near Saturn. Some of these particles are orbiting Saturn, while others may come from other solar systems. The Cosmic Dust Analyzer onboard the Cassini orbiter is ultimately designed to help discover more about these mysterious particles, and significantly add to the knowledge of the materials in other celestial bodies and potentially more about the origins of the universe.[2]

Composite Infrared Spectrometer (CIRS)

The Composite Infrared Spectrometer (CIRS) is a remote sensing instrument that measures the infrared light coming from an object (such as an atmosphere or moon surface) to learn more about its temperature and what it's made of. Throughout the Cassini-Huygens mission, CIRS will measure infrared emissions from atmospheres, rings and surfaces in the vast Saturn system to determine their composition, temperatures and thermal properties. It will map the atmosphere of Saturn in three dimensions to determine temperature and pressure profiles with altitude, gas composition, and the distribution of aerosols and clouds. This instrument will also measure thermal characteristics and the composition of satellite surfaces and rings.[3]

Ion and Neutral Mass Spectrometer (INMS)

The Ion and Neutral Mass Spectrometer (INMS) is a direct sensing instrument that analyzes charged particles (like protons and heavier ions) and neutral particles (like atoms) near Titan and Saturn to learn more about their atmospheres. INMS is intended also to measure the positive ion and neutral environments of Saturn's icy satellites and rings.[4]

Imaging Science Subsystem (ISS)

The Imaging Science Subsystem (ISS) is a remote sensing instrument that captures images in visible light, and some in infrared and ultraviolet light. The ISS has a camera that can take a broad, wide-angle picture and a camera that can record small areas in fine detail. Scientists anticipate that Cassini scientists will be able to use ISS to return hundreds of thousands of images of Saturn and its rings and moons. ISS includes two cameras; a Wide Angle Camera (WAC) and a Narrow Angle Camera (NAC). Each uses a sensitive charge-coupled device (CCD) as its detector. Each CCD consists of a 1,024 square array of pixels, 12 μm on a side. The camera's system allows for many data collection modes, including on-chip data compression. Both cameras are fitted with spectral filters that rotate on a wheel—to view different bands within the electromagnetic spectrum ranging from 0.2 to 1.1 μm.[5]

Dual Technique Magnetometer (MAG)

The Dual Technique Magnetometer (MAG) is a direct sensing instrument that measures the strength and direction of the magnetic field around Saturn. The magnetic fields are generated partly by the intensely hot molten core at Saturn's center. Measuring the magnetic field is one of the ways to probe the core, even though it is far too hot and deep to actually visit. MAG's goals are to develop a three-dimensional model of Saturn's magnetosphere, as well as determine the magnetic state of Titan and its atmosphere, and the icy satellites and their role in the magnetosphere of Saturn.[6]

Magnetospheric Imaging Instrument (MIMI)

The Magnetospheric Imaging Instrument (MIMI) is both a direct and remote sensing instrument that produces images and other data about the particles trapped in Saturn's huge magnetic field, or magnetosphere. This information will be used to study the overall configuration and dynamics of the magnetosphere and its interactions with the solar wind, Saturn's atmosphere, Titan, rings, and icy satellites.[7]

Radio Detection and Ranging Instrument (RADAR)

The Radio Detection and Ranging Instrument (RADAR) is a remote active and remote passive sensing instrument that will produce maps of Titan's surface and measures the height of surface objects (like mountains and canyons) by bouncing radio signals off of Titan's surface and timing their return. Radio waves can penetrate the thick veil of haze surrounding Titan. In addition to bouncing radio waves, the RADAR instrument will listen for radio waves that Saturn or its moons may be producing.[8]

Radio and Plasma Wave Science instrument (RPWS)

The Radio and Plasma Wave Science instrument (RPWS) is a direct and remote sensing instrument that receives and measures the radio signals coming from Saturn, including the radio waves given off by the interaction of the solar wind with Saturn and Titan. The major functions of the RPWS are to measure the electric and magnetic wave fields in the interplanetary medium and planetary magnetospheres. The instrument will also determine the electron density and temperature near Titan and in some regions of Saturn's magnetosphere. RPWS studies the configuration of Saturn's magnetic field and its relationship to Saturn Kilometric Radiation (SKR), as well as monitoring and mapping Saturn's ionosphere, plasma, and lightning from Saturn's (and possibly Titan's) atmosphere.[9]

Radio Science Subsystem (RSS)

The Radio Science Subsystem (RSS) is a remote sensing instrument that uses radio antennas on Earth to observe the way radio signals from the spacecraft change as they are sent through objects, such as Titan's atmosphere or Saturn's rings, or even behind the sun. The RSS also studies the compositions, pressures and temperatures of atmospheres and ionospheres, radial structure and particle size distribution within rings, body and system masses and gravitational waves. The instrument uses the spacecraft X-band communication link as well as S-band downlink and Ka-band uplink and downlink.[10]

Ultraviolet Imaging Spectrograph (UVIS)

The Ultraviolet Imaging Spectrograph (UVIS) is a remote sensing instrument that captures images of the ultraviolet light reflected off an object, such as the clouds of Saturn and/or its rings, to learn more about their structure and composition. Designed to measure ultraviolet light over wavelengths from 55.8 to 190 nm, this instrument is also a valuable tool to help determine the composition, distribution, aerosol particle content and temperatures of their atmospheres. This sensitive instrument is different from other types of spectrometers because it can take both spectral and spatial readings. It is particularly adept at determining the composition of gases. Spatial observations take a wide-by-narrow view, only one pixel tall and 60 pixels across. The spectral dimension is 1,024 pixels per spatial pixel. Additionally, it is capable of taking so many images that it can create movies to show the ways in which this material is moved around by other forces.[11]

Visible and Infrared Mapping Spectrometer (VIMS)

The Visible and Infrared Mapping Spectrometer (VIMS) is a remote sensing instrument that is actually made up of two cameras in one: one is used to measure visible wavelengths, the other infrared. VIMS captures images using visible and infrared light to learn more about the composition of moon surfaces, the rings, and the atmospheres of Saturn and Titan. VIMS also observes the sunlight and starlight that passes through the rings to learn more about ring structure. VIMS is designed to measure reflected and emitted radiation from atmospheres, rings and surfaces over wavelengths from 0.35 to 5.1 mm. It will also help determine the compositions, temperatures and structures of these objects. With VIMS, scientists also plan to perform long-term studies of cloud movement and morphology in the Saturn system, to determine the planet's weather patterns.[12]

So how does String/M theory change the way we see?

The calorimeter design for GLAST produces flashes of light that are used to determine how much energy is in each gamma-ray. A calorimeter ("calorie-meter") is a device that measures the energy (heat: calor) of a particle when it is totally absorbed.

Smolin added his contribution to the string theory discussion on the new Cosmicvariance.com site that has been created by a group of people that offer perspective. In this case Sean Carroll posted a thread on Two Cheers for String theory, provoked some iteresting responses by minds who are at the forefront of these conversations.

I responded to this becuase I had been following both avenues Smolin spoke too, so I'll put my comment here as well.

This topic thread was develope from my reactions based on those who call people who are trying hard to integrate views of the natural world with the physics ideology of the topic of Strings?M theory, these fellows present. If they can not show us these new views as Smolin offers for inspection then what use the models and theories if no onne wants to se these work in the world we undrstand well by seeing around us?

While some people are looking for consistant means of determinations, others apply "conceptual situations" and bring forth comprehension of a kind. Now to this degree, that "gluonic perception is being adjusted" to see these values. The Smolins and others understood well the limitation of these views? Are there any?

Radio sounds from the source

All of the structures we observe in Saturn's radio spectrum are giving us clues about what might be going on in the source of the radio emissions above Saturn's auroras," said Dr. Bill Kurth, deputy principal investigator for the instrument. He is with the University of Iowa, Iowa City. Kurth made the discovery along with Principal Investigator Don Gurnett, a professor at the University. "We believe that the changing frequencies are related to tiny radio sources moving up and down along Saturn's magnetic field lines."

Has Sound, Changed the way we See?

Most of us understand the the aurora display do we not, and the resulting interactive play between the sun and the earth? The Auger experiment previously talked about and spoken too, by John Ellis, is a fine example of the diversity of interative features we can hope to see, as we examine the particle nature apart from the LHC rules of energy engagement, above and beyond the limits that have been imposed on us earthlings:)


The Fly's Eye and the Oh My God Particle

While the topic is produced for this conversation seems disjointed, the ideology of the string theorist is held to a boundry of thinking in my eyes that such a membrane( here I could link a toy model for comparison), and defined in this bubble context, as rudimentry as it appears in my mind's eye, it follows the developemental processes we see from the eulicidation Einstein offered us by joining Maxwell into the process unfolding in nature and to see the effect of any bulk production as a necessary step beyond the boudaries of this bubble?


Now in contrast I see the soapy bubble and light refraction dispalyed in such a lovely continuous flow over it's surface, that to me, it does not make sense if such auroric dispalyes are not to give us new ideas about the interactive feature of the sun with earth? Conceptually, thes ideas of hitting metal plates and such present new ideas in how dispersion across that plate could represent other ideas. What are those. Wel that's what I am trying to do is free the mind from th econstraints we had put on it in sucha strick language accompany those that step ahead of us in their own specualtions educationally followed doctrine. What new light and thinking patterns follow these people?

The auroral ionosphere is a natural emitter of radio waves, and many of these emissions are observable at ground level. Several types of radio emissions have been well documented using a variety of ground-based, stepped-frequency receivers (see reviews by LaBelle [1989] and LaBelle and Weatherwax, [1992]). In particular, auroral roar is a relatively narrowband emission at roughly 2 and 3 times the local electron cyclotron frequency ( ) [Kellogg and Monson, 1979; Kellogg and Monson, 1984; Weatherwax et al., 1993, 1995]. Much effort has been made in characterizing the seasonal, diurnal, and spectral characteristics of auroral roar to aid in determining its generation mechanism [e.g., Weatherwax et al., 1995.

See also:

http://www-pw.physics.uiowa.edu/plasma-wave/tutorial/examples.html

News articles shamelessy borrowed:

Space Music

The Musical Sounds of Space

'Sun Rings' Shares the Music of
Space

Quartet, Choir Debut NASA's 'Space Music'

Out of This World

Music of the Stars

Music of the Spheres

NASA Music Out of This World

Sun Rings

Turning Sounds From Space Into a Symphony

Science and Music Merge for Fall Concert

UI Space Physicist's Sounds of Space Inspire Work of Art

Themis

THEMIS's ground network of all sky imagers will have the density and time resolution to detect auroral onset within 10s and 0.5 degrees of longitude. The University of Calgary will deploy 16 imagers across Canada, combined with imagers in Alaska the THEMIS array will consist of 20 ground-based observatories (GBOs). Each GBO will consist of a white light all sky camera and a host of support equipment such as a computer, GPS antenna, and a satellite dish (in the event that an internet connection is not available at the site). [more information on GBOs]

It is always important to move the mind to encompass greater potentials, even within the confines of the physics we understand, and move this, to the natural world we see, while we witness it's glory.

Astronaut's view of the Aurora Australis, or southern lights, from aboard Space Shuttle Discovery 1991 (Courtesy: NASA)

Those more adventourous, and with better visonistic qualities , and those having consumed models of apprehension, might be able to talk about these things in ways that we are not accustomed too?

Like learning a new language, and conceptual framework, that loosens those things we hold so tight, that no room is granted for the neurons to fire new pathways?

The Black Hole Final State

Mathematics is not the rigid and rigidity-producing schema that the layman thinks it is; rather, in it we find ourselves at that meeting point of constraint and freedom that is the very essence of human nature.

- Hermann Weyl

It was a nice vacation and now being back, I see Lubos is clarifying some issues here for us to consider.

"Lubos Motl:

However, Hawking's semiclassical calculation leads to an exactly (piecewise) thermal final state. Such a mixed state in the far future violates unitarity - pure states cannot evolve into mixed states unitarily - and it destroys the initial information about the collapsed objects which is why we call it "information loss puzzle". A tension with quantum mechanics emerges.

The Gepner point demonstrates greater potential recognition of the brane world understandings and two dimensional views from a five dimenisonal developmentment for those who do not like such abstract adventures P.P. Cook helps to enlighten us on this subject.

So have I done justice to the developing perspective, that we are now ready to take what what demonstrated, and move it to a greater format for those who will lead us laymen through the world of the abstract mathematics? To help us enjoy what was mathematically unenduring for those not gifted to see the B field manifestaion, is a continuance of what we like to engage at higher dimensional perspectives. And really, it is all about imagery is it not?




Lee Smolin:

It was worry about the possibility that string theory would lead to the present situation, which Susskind has so ably described in his recent papers, that led me to invent the Cosmological Natural Selection [CNS] idea and to write my first book. My motive, then as now, is to prevent a split in the community of theoretical physicists in which different groups of smart people believe different things, with no recourse to come to consensus by rational argument from the evidence.

You must understand the state of thinking and dualistic nature that continues to force minds to engage the process, and this quest for wholeness, between two thoughts that are part and parcel of the same thing? Relativity and Quantum Nature. The larger circle is RElativity, and the smaller, the quantum nature. LQG and STring work from their respective positions.

So do we select the basis for this model, and find that LQG and Strings are formulated on principals embedded in association with the blackhole topic? This throws light back again on a topic that has been shared more then once by such trends in thinking as Lubos exemplfies for us, and again directs our thoughts towards Lenny Susskind and Lee Smolin, in contrast to each other.

I see people are teaming up appropriately, such as Cosmic Variance, and this of course has already been lead by Lubos and Peter's contrast to each other. Whether some like to speculate on co-joining for such comparsions on the validity of strings, versus no strings approach, as resolutions, had already been developed while we see this new means to develope, much as Brain Greene and others in ISCAP foundations principals.

So of course onward and forward, we push the topic and the expertise for the layperson like me, that we see and continue to find, developmental processes appropriately gathering for future thoughts shared? Again too, we see Quantum Diaries has indeed served it's purpose more then once in what John Ellis and other's have shared, have open the doorway to how we see such developmental attitudes expanding in contrast to the larger circle of possibilties.

See John's latest entree and for me, hitting big objects and particle collisions still open the mind for the natural cosmic interactive processes ongoing in nature around us.

Anyway back to the title of this post. I have some thinking here to do.

Gary T. Horowitz1 and Juan Maldacena,2

The purpose of this note is to provide a possible answer to this question. Rather than the radical modification of quantum mechanics required for pure states to evolve into mixed states, we adopt a more mild modification. We propose that at the black hole singularity one needs to impose a unique final state boundary condition. More precisely, we have a unique final wavefunction for the interior of the black hole. Modifications of quantum mechanics where one imposes final state boundary conditions were considered in [6,7,8,9]. Here we are putting a final state boundary condition on part of the system, the interior of the black hole. This final boundary condition makes sure that no information is “absorbed” by the singularity.

If indeed we started to think about the point on the brane then what kind of simplification can be drawn so that those less enclined to such abstract thinking could find a greater potential to that dimensionnal thinking?

(a) Compactifying a 3-D universe with two space dimensions and one time dimension. This is a simplification of the 5-D space­time considered by Theodor Kaluza and Oskar Klein. (b) The Lorentz symmetry of the large dimension is broken by the compactification and all that remains is 2-D space plus the U(1) symmetry represented by the arrow. (c) On large scales we see only a 2-D universe (one space plus one time dimension) with the "internal" U(1) symmetry of electromagnetism.

Here such thoughts begin to form around the idealization of computer graphics imagery developed and leading in this idealization of this two dimensional screen. We see where the likes of Thomas Banchoff demonstrate where such new roads to the developing insight ot this imagery can be seen in Smolins views of the Bekenstein Bound, that we we now understand a greater potential exists in how we view the screen, and what is being described in the blackhole horizon?



Let me show this image again, for greater clarity of what I mean.