What I wanted to Portray in Aristotle and Plato?

On my site you will see that they work together but from different perspectives.

Look at the hand gestures...

Plato - holding the Timaeus - Pointing up as a sign of his metaphysical belief in the higher world of the forms, shown with the face of Leonardo.

Aristotle - holding his Ethics with hand palm down, reflecting a more grounded approach to the problem of universals

......then read the statement at the very top of the page.

PLato saids,"Look to the perfection of the heavens for truth," while Aristotle saids "look around you at what is, if you would know the truth"

These "archetypes," were very much evident in the relation of Gell-Mann and Feynman?



This relationship painted by Raphael sits in the Room of the Segnatura in Rome, called the Raphael rooms. You can type in the "Raphael rooms" at the top of page on the blogger and use that search function.

While I do not like to infer such attributes to the signatures the Pope signs, I do believe that the ancient mind tried to capture the deeper meaning of these individuals, Plato and Aristotle. As I try to do.

Epistemology (Wikipedia 30 May 2006)

The Theaetetus account of Plato further develops the definition of knowledge. We know that, for something to count as knowledge, it must be true, and be believed to be true. Plato argues that this is insufficient, and that in addition one must have a reason or justification for that belief.

Plato defined knowledge as justified true belief.

One implication of this definition is that one cannot be said to "know" something just because one believes it and that belief subsequently turns out to be true. An ill person with no medical training but a generally optimistic attitude might believe that she will recover from her illness quickly, but even if this belief turned out to be true, on the Theaetetus account the patient did not know that she would get well, because her belief lacked justification.

Knowledge, therefore, is distinguished from true belief by its justification, and much of epistemology is concerned with how true beliefs might be properly justified. This is sometimes referred to as the theory of justification.

Hand gestures have many different meanings? Look at Buddha?

Plato and Aristotle

Plato - holding the Timaeus - Pointing up as a sign of his metaphysical belief in the higher world of the forms, shown with the face of Leonardo.

Aristotle - holding his Ethics with hand palm down, reflecting a more grounded approach to the problem of universals.

I wanted to remind people of something quite profound as we look at Raphael's picture above. That it would be in such a position as that of the signatores relation, had been more of hindrance to me. Here, any document with which was to be signed, as representing the whole Catholic Church.

I would have liked to have seen the better message be, that this room would sign all faiths, all religions, to something built into each of us. It is something that we will take from pondering such a picture. It will become part of us.

PLato saids,"Look to the perfection of the heavens for truth," while Aristotle saids "look around you at what is, if you would know the truth" To Remember: Eskesthai

I wanted to create this post as it has been sitting on my mind right from the every beginning and inception of this Blog. While my discription had been drawn from historical reference, the stage(Arch), from this beginning, is a interesting one.



Without the ability to have teachers hold one's hand all the way through the process to knowledge development, it was necessary that confidence be built into any who would adventure to such learning and research. So I developed a early a conceptual framework that would draw attention to "insight developement" through states of "correlation of cognition," as signs evident in, the natural world around us.

These were important features of model consumptions, and the "simplestic idealizations" behind their developement. If you saw this from working the model, then what value any prediction, and if you had saw insightually into the workings?

Right and Left
I came across this thinking in my adventures, where such distinctions held in the opening at the top of this page, might had arisen from left and right brain people? Would have been attributed to characteristics of the very minds who involved themself in the ways with which they might approach science today? Brain matter is encase, are our minds too?

There seems to be something special about positions historically identified to current day researchers? This came to me while I was doing early research on Plato and Aristotle themself. Underneath this picture, painted in the center, Plato and Aristotle stand. Look at what had been taken for further inspection below. What does it's link imply?


Plato:

Look to the right of Raphael's painting lower right hand corner. Look at the link this picture is connected too?

What was even more provoking, was the way in which I could see this arche identified in oppositions of scientists, who would lead us into the explorations of what and how we have come to where we are today.

Can you see yourself in the figures of fathered archetypes, embedded within our consciousness, to have known, that such an evolution was part and parcel of the scientific process in the developement of your very own minds?

"I would like to be like Feynman," yells Lubos, dememaning all philosophical adventures, while Anon screams, "no, I am Feynman." I would say you both have your place in all this. We just didn't recognize where it would come from, so we emmulated our teachers, and the teachers before them? Oh dear Aristotle, how are you?

Feynman and Gellman
For instance let us say that Feynman's thnking was more like Artistoles, while Gellman's Plato's

What was distinctive about either was that one, Gellman saw eternal and immutable patterns inhernet in the phenomena of the material world, while, Aristotle saw these as myth? Feynmen worshiped nature itself.

While discarding the myth, as philosphical pandering, are you a Feynmen who sees what is underlying, as a possible abstraction? If so, you would have been in good company with Robert Laughlin and the issues of condense matter physicist, and the relevance of building blocks of nature as, irrelevant? Oui! NOn?

Not by inception of strings that had implied itself as a discriptor of the very underlying feature of all that exists? How could we have seen that such a expression and revolt would have taken such thinking to further the basis of the standard model, to incorporate the graviton? To have conceptually incorporated the "Bulk."

You needed Plato?:)

The 5th Dimension and the Networld

Hi Darwin,

You thought my statement foolish, about Immanuel Kant?

Instead of Darwin I thought maybe you might envision yourself as Aristotle, as you stand beside me, under the "arche.":)

That what religion does is build concrete things, and so to models, for apprehension. If you stand and look at the room, why would I ever direct you to the picture on the wall? You have to draw back and take in a wider picure of what you see of Plato?:)

To them, I said,
the truth would be literally nothing
but the shadows of the images.

-Plato, The Republic (Book VII)

Gerard t'Hooft, as well as Heisenberg, used comparative views establish from the Dialogues. These things were taken into the schools of learning.

So by your reasoning, condensed matter physicists would be really happy to just deal with matter principles(whatever the building blocks of matter are?)The bottom up approach, while holography by philosophical attachment, should become irrelevant while we discuss the dimensional significance of where we are now in the networld?:)

I am a student and learning, please be kind.:)

A Clear Presence

Can one miscontstrue your words even more? :)

Lee Smolin said:

Of course if the theory is right-and we never assume so-we must show more. We must show that the ground state is semiclassical, by solving the dynamics. This is a hard problem, analogous to showing that the ground state of water is a solid. But as this is the focus of attention there are beginning to be significant, non-trivial results on how classical spacetime can emerge from a background independent quantum theory.

Jacques Distler:

But the mere possibility of such surprises should not reduce us to labelling every as-yet-not-experimentally-verified statement to the status of mere “opinion” or rank “speculation.”

While I am extreme with my "Angels and Demon" such comparative functions had not been limited too, the basics of such assumptions, but had indeed been dressed up by good science woman/man.

We all like a good story. Those, in regards to time travel or Contact like movie(science that is consulted as to the edge of what theoretcial positions had beem pushed).

Yet indeed even within the boundaries of work sciencetists bring here a division of what is hoped for, as a "reduced basis of assumption," could have been misleading as to the real science or not?

Is it illusion that we play with, that we would want the purity of thought manifested on the public scene, as warped mentalities of what many scientists would disgust them? This "clear presence?" An "open heart clear mind."

The story of Angel and demons has been misconstrued in science by very bright scientists, using the nature of right and wrong, as inherent features of negative and positive curvatures?

Taken to mean this theoretics and that, are indcative anomalies of the good and evil in society. Is it political? Or shall we play with the very concepts and misconstrue them for what they really are?

Raphael Rooms

The fog is immmense and greatly hides the idea of this clear presence. Opening good hearts and minds as to the attempts to get rid of the illusions that would take hold of society? Allow the greater vision of perspective, a picture, that had been piecemealed, to raise a reality of what the picutre is painted on, the room it sits in, and what each parts of it, are telling the story about the geometers of the world?

Objective Truth?

Mark:

you can tell has a real thirst to get her mind around the issues, and who isn’t looking for a sound bite to take the place of a complicated story

There is no doubt in my mind that KC Coles will play a significant role and is playing a significant role, in helping us to put our heads around things that are extremely interesting.

Award-winning science journalist and author K.C. Cole will join the USC Annenberg faculty as a visiting professor of journalism in January 2006, the School announced Friday, October 28, 2005.

Will she follow what a Lee Smolin does, "Three Roads to Quantum Gravity," or what a Brian Greene does in terms of, "the Fabric of the Cosmos," or what anyone for that matter who is engaging the quantum gravity issue. Who gets as close as, Michio Kaku does, in helping people to view hyperdimensional realities, from roads that had been travelled from historical perspectives? Get's as close as possible to what Atlas is doing in terms of Calorimetric perspectives?

This would mean the doors are open wide and that her work, will be guided, by those who are at the front, right?

Doesn't a clear "objective truth" not only increase our awareness, but also lays at the door sill, an invitation to engage the questions of what roads leave off where, and what roads are being left with guiding signs, as a door open to the future?

So I know with the creative impute Clifford seems to have, this could be a interesting proposition, and for Mark, such curators know well to ask what would help the public understand these issues better?


PLato saids,"Look to the perfection of the heavens for truth," while Aristotle saids "look around you at what is, if you would know the truth" To Remember: Eskesthai

Ideas, they already exist, we just have to recognize them?:)

Objective truth, should be as discernable, as the roads that lead to future thoughts and ideas. This is really a tuff question to me, and having math and physics holding two features of inductive and deductive processes within our capable minds, would have some oscillatory response to a place, where that plateau is most desirable and can lead to future ideas. It's a place where injection of all that already exists comes to awareness. We just had to get there by standing back and accessing what the picture is in relationto the room. In relation to the what draws the eye, and what peole use of it to further elucidate our understanding of.

Look to the right of Raphael's painting lower right hand corner. Look at the link this picture is connected too?

Plato - holding the Timaeus - Pointing up as a sign of his metaphysical belief in the higher world of the forms, shown with the face of Leonardo.

Aristotle - holding his Ethics with hand palm down, reflecting a more grounded approach to the problem of universals.

Heraclitus - melancholy and alone, shown with the face of Michelangelo

This is a human situation, that would seek to find all in accord with, and raises question towards, that validity and extension of inductive and deductive modes. Can we excell the physics and math approaches with this interconnectivity forward to that open invitation?



Whether physicists and Mathematicians "believe" they belong to a secular view of reality, does not diminish the humanness with which responsiblity can transverse the scope of our thinking. To further invitations of psychological valuations into the meanings of the "hot stove and a pretty girl," as an culmination of good understanding about durations of time. In happiness and sadness, while this is philosophical bent, there is reason to believe that "time" can hold these valuations. That time, can be a measure in our ascertions of human conduct?



So we want this "objectve truth" so clear and concise, that it could permeate all the way down to the generalization of good physicist and mathematicains minds, to help ordinary citizens realize that the basis of objective truth lies at the heart of these words of wisdom shed amongst the populace?

So understanding where this oscillatory feature of inductive and deductive features would serve us all well I think, helps orientate what the picture of Raphael's reality includes. Not just to be taken on the surface, for what we see?

If from a "langangrian perspective" we understood where this resonantial feature could invite human awareness of this deeper hidden valution of the unseen, then the point on the chaldni plate makes it readily discernable, where injection and place one could invite these ideas into?

Our perspective and views, can go much deeper then what we had first realized, now that we know that this "arche" oversees all roads leading to the investigations of the maths and physics simultaneously. Opens such a doorway to objectivity, and extensions of human thought about what should extend into the realms of the bulk perspective. It all arose from soem consistent geometrical modelling that none were the wiser takes place, until you look at what Einstein had to incorporate. To bring such a conclusion to the idea of seeing this world from a greater perspective then the one we are held to following lines on a sphere.

"Sailing ships" now become men(?)photons who see for the first time, a view of a globe, that we had been so long held too, that we understand a greater relationship now between clocks, and it's influence on that same photon. Influence of time?

So now for the conclusion of where this picture sits here. That one indeed might wonder about the Room of the Signatore, and the place of power it holds in the Religion of the Roman Catholic. Does it bolster religious dogma, that this article in question would point to ID and it's classification, assigned to religious held views of what science should mean?

Sure, Raphael could have been a very religious man, but artistically, what could all of this science include then? Do we denouce this part of our heritage from a historical sense, or have we progressed? Throw out dogmatic rules, that do not adhere to our scientific understanding then?

Now I think it is a better understanding and clarity of these situations that we recognize each will hold to their "religion" regardless. That if some see what we are doing by let's say holding "string theory" to such high esteem, then it is the insult of "truth," as to what we hold in our investigations?

A relation to particle reductionisms and the deeper reality taken to view the origins of our universe? It would be very insulting would it not seem, had we all agreed on historical perspective, made way for scientific enlightenment?

Raphael Rooms

Room of the Segnatura

Virtual Tour of this Room

The Room of the Segnatura contains Raphael's most famous frescoes. Besides being the first work executed by the great artist in the Vatican they mark the beginning of the high Renaissance. The room takes its name from the highest court of the Holy See, the "Segnatura Gratiae et Iustitiae", which was presided over by the pontiff and used to meet in this room around the middle of the 16th century. Originally the room was used by Julius II (pontiff from 1503 to 1513) as a library and private office. The iconographic programme of the frescoes, which were painted between 1508 and 1511, is related to this function.

Room of Constantine

Room of Heliodorus

Room of the Segnatura

Room of the Fire in the Borgo

The four rooms known as the Stanze of Raphael form part of the apartment situated on the second floor of the Pontifical Palace that was chosen by Julius II della Rovere, the Pope. as his own residence and used also by his successors. The picturesque decoration was carried out by Raphael and his pupils between 1508 and 1524.

The Raphael Rooms (also called the Raphael Stanze) in the Palace of the Vatican are papal apartments with frescoes painted by Italian artist Raphael.

The Rooms were originally intended as a suite of apartments for Pope Julius II. He commissioned the relatively young artist Raffaello Sanzio and his studio in 1508 or 1509 to repaint the existing interiors of the rooms entirely. It was possibly Julius' intent to outshine the apartments of his predecessor (and rival) Pope Alexander VI as the Raphael Rooms are directly above Alexander's Borgia Apartment.

The Rooms are on the third floor, overlooking the south side of the Belvedere Courtyard. Running from East to West, the rooms are called:

This picture by Raphael is very important to me, as you must be aware, by the opening at the very head of this blog, and by the picture I cut from Raphael's painting. It shows myself(Plato:) and Aristotle.

I mentioned that ">one thing" before remember. How this insighted Curly 's touching philosophy about that "one thing" and the search for Gold.

Well, such depictions taken I gathered from the painting, as well as, what I gathered from what I thought Raphael was saying. You noticed of course that they are all under this Arche? Yes, this was very symbolic to me.

So indeed, what is truth?

Justified true belief

The Theaetetus account of Plato further develops the definition of knowledge. We know that, for something to count as knowledge, it must be true, and be believed to be true. Plato argues that this is insufficient, and that in addition one must have a reason or justification for that belief.

Plato defined knowledge as justified true belief.

One implication of this definition is that one cannot be said to "know" something just because one believes it and that belief subsequently turns out to be true. An ill person with no medical training but a generally optimistic attitude might believe that she will recover from her illness quickly, but even if this belief turned out to be true, on the Theaetetus account the patient did not know that she would get well, because her belief lacked justification.

Knowledge, therefore, is distinguished from true belief by its justification, and much of epistemology is concerned with how true beliefs might be properly justified. This is sometimes referred to as the theory of justification.

Well to help direct the truth to bare on what these sources are, I thought it important to continue to bring perspective not only to the tidbits of images that are floating around this site, and those of others, but brings the significance of such "gatherings" to Raphael's painting and the place it rests.

So anyway, a little more clarity, with a "slight twist" of my humour.

The Sound of the Landscape

Ashmolean Museum, Oxford, UK

As you know my name is Plato (The School of Athens by Raphael:)I have lived on for many years now, in the ideas that are presented in the ideas of R Buckminister Fuller, and with the helping hands of dyes, have demonstrated, the basis of these sounds in balloon configuration worth wondering, as simplice's of these higher dimensional realizations.

A Chladni plate consist of a flat sheet of metal, usually circular or square, mounted on a central stalk to a sturdy base. When the plate is oscillating in a particular mode of vibration, the nodes and antinodes set up form a complex but symmetrical pattern over its surface. The positions of these nodes and antinodes can be seen by sprinkling sand upon the plates;

Now you know from the previous post, that I have taken the technical aspects of string theory, and the mathematical formulations, and moved them into a encapsulated state of existance, much as brane theory has done.

I look at this point(3 sphere derivation from euclid point line plane), on the brane and I wonder indeed, how 1R radius of this point becomes a circle. Indeed, we find this "idea" leaving the brane into a bulk manifestation of information, that we little specks on earth look for in signs of, through our large interferometers called LIGO's



John Baez:

Ever make a cube out of paper? You draw six square on the paper in a cross-shaped pattern, cut the whole thing out, and then fold it up.... To do this, we take advantage of the fact that the interior angles of 3 squares don't quite add up to 360 degrees: they only add up to 270 degrees. So if we try to tile the plane with squares in such a way that only 3 meet at each vertex, the pattern naturally "curls up" into the 3rd dimension - and becomes a cube!

The same idea applies to all the other Platonic solids. And we can understand the 4d regular polytopes in the same way!

The Hills of M Theory

The hills are alive with the sound of music
With songs they have sung for a thousand years.
The hills fill my heart with the sound of music
My heart wants to sing every song it hears....

It's a wonder indeed that we could talk about the spacetime fabric and the higher dimensions that settle themselves into cohesive structures(my solids) for our satisfaction? What nodal points, do we have to wonder about when a string vibrates, and one does not have to wonder to much about the measure of the Q<->Q distance, as something more then the metric field resonates for us?

This higher dimensional value seen in this distance would speak loudly to its possiblites of shape, but it is not easily accepted that we find lattice structures could have ever settled themselves into mass configurations of my solids.



Lenny Susskind must be very pround of this landscape interpretation, as it is shown in the picture above. But the question is, if the spacetime fabric is the place where all these higher dimensions will reveal themselves, then what structure would have been defined in this expression from it's orignation, to what we see today?

Alas, I am taken to the principles of," Spacetime in String Theory," by Gary T. Horowitz

If one quantizes a free relativistic (super) string in flat spacetimeone finds a infinite tower of modes of increasing mass. Let us assume the string is closed,i.e., topologically a circle