The Roadmap Epigenomics Project

The Roadmap Epigenomics Project presents a wealth of epigenomes, a resource that provides a plethora of new hypotheses to be tested in relation to human health and disease. The current papers use innovative analytical approaches to uncover new mechanisms and pathways, to deepen and extend previous groundbreaking observations. 

While the Roadmap Epigenomics Project has reached a major milestone, the epigenomes of 127 cell types are just the beginning of the road to a comprehensive epigenome encyclopaedia. The International Human Epigenome Consortium plans to determine the epigenomes of every cell type in the human body — estimated to be several hundred to a thousand. 

Dr Henk Stunnenberg, Chair of the International Scientific Steering Committee of IHEC

See: IHEC 

Crash Course on Formal Logic

Psycho-epigenetics

Behavioral epigenetics is the field of study examining the role of epigenetics in shaping animal (including human) behaviour.^[1] It is an experimental science that seeks to explain how nurture shapes nature,^[2] where nature refers to biological heredity^[3] and nurture refers to virtually everything that occurs during the life-span (e.g., social-experience, diet and nutrition, and exposure to toxins).^[2] Behavioral epigenetics attempts to provide a framework for understanding how the expression of genes is influenced by experiences and the environment^[4] to produce individual differences in behaviour,^[5] cognition^[2] personality,^[6] and mental health.^[7][8]

Epigenetic gene regulation involves changes other than to the sequence of DNA and includes changes to histones (proteins around which DNA is wrapped) and DNA methylation.^[9] These epigenetic changes can influence the growth of neurons in the developing brain^[10] as well as modify activity of the neurons in the adult brain.^[11][12] Together, these epigenetic changes on neuron structure and function can have a marked influence on an organism's behavior.^[1]

By the time Szyf arrived at McGill in the late 1980s, he had become an expert in the mechanics of epigenetic change. But until meeting Meaney, he had never heard anyone suggest that such changes could occur in the brain, simply due to maternal care.
“It sounded like voodoo at first,” Szyf admits. “For a molecular biologist, anything that didn’t have a clear molecular pathway was not serious science. But the longer we talked, the more I realized that maternal care just might be capable of causing changes in DNA methylation, as crazy as that sounded. So Michael and I decided we’d have to do the experiment to find out.” See: Grandma's Experiences Leave a Mark on Your Genes

We have seen ]experimentation with regard to mice, where in experiment # 3, they are able to affect the pups with an injection in order to release the pups from an absence of what nurturing does, by what a mother can produce in the pups. So we may come to believe the neurological manufacture can be used to help change the way people perceive?

 Epigenetics has a strong influence on the development of an organism and can alter the expression of individual traits.^[9] Epigenetic changes occur not only in the developing fetus, but also in individuals throughout the human life-span.^[19] Because some epigenetic modifications can be passed from one generation to the next,^[20] subsequent generations may be affected by the epigenetic changes that took place in the parents.^[20]

 So here's the question.

How could society as a culture change, if it did not believe that consciousness could be capable of, while changing on a biological level? Do you not have to assume that the mind/body has a deep interrelationship with how one perceives, and that only after such a realization,  with regard to biology,  is it understood,  that we must take embodied mind into consideration? That we are more then a slave to our senses.

	Darwin and Freud walk into a bar. Two alcoholic mice — a mother and her son — sit on two bar stools, lapping gin from two thimbles. The mother mouse looks up and says, “Hey, geniuses, tell me how my son got into this sorry state.” “Bad inheritance,” says Darwin. “Bad mothering,” says Freud.Grandma's Experiences Leave a Mark on Your Genes

 I think in one respect, if we think about an alternative to the example I am going to give, what is assumed?

Philosophers, psychologists, cognitive scientists, and artificial intelligence researchers who study embodied cognition and the embodied mind argue that all aspects of cognition are shaped by aspects of the body. The aspects of cognition include high level mental constructs (such as concepts and categories) and human performance on various cognitive tasks (such as reasoning or judgment). The aspects of the body include the motor system, the perceptual system, the body's interactions with the environment (situatedness) and the ontological assumptions about the world that are built into the body and the brain.Embodied Cognition

By inference, can I suggest an outcome, as that alternative? Do you feel, this is a valid assumption? The counter, to the embodied mind and cognition would be?

So, I look at the subject of epigentics in as psycho-expressive state, to mean that we are limited by our biology so as to assume limitations in our thinking?

So, lets just assume I have you where I want you to be, and look at what is possibly being said. Your body limits the amount of reasoning and judgement that is possible? That your body/brain matter limits aspects of your higher mental constructs(such as concepts and categories.)

Are these valid assumptions of the embodied mind thesis if you are still thinking about the alternative?

 So, the alternative possibly is this, that there is possibly 2% of the population that is awake, and that is enough to begin to set the descendants free? So it is not just being a slave to the mind as in some dichotomy, but realizing that this alternative, is connection to the true source( where is your antenna tuned) to that of the data stream?

What is consciousness doing if it is to say that it is experiencing life as a worm? Maybe exploring its possibilities? Would you deny the ability of consciousness to experience or help consciousness to realize, that your descendants can learn to become free?

So there is that part of the population of the planet, as a group, that will help set the planet free? I do not know.

What is the current rate of thinking "that is established to believe" that exploration outside of the realms of our planet are the extensions of the beliefs that our senses are being extended as is our understanding of the universe, as we let our robots out into the universe? So, we have covered so much of the spectrum to see?

So the question is, is it possible to kick consciousness of the animal to the curb, or, if we believe consciousness is able "to experience," more, beyond the confines of the senses as, i, you, or we, is more then of the "mind being used" as too, eco me, eco you, eco we?

Now considering the topic here of Behavioral Epigenetics,  how do you see this following presentation?

Now some of you think this is a grandiose view here while when dealing up front and center with a question and answer, for what a lot have women made. I won't go into the procedure of how decisions are being made, or, will be made. What I will say is, that woman have made them.




So to get beyond the idea of the new field of study,  as some attribute to all the witch doctoring one might come to believe,  I think we should go beyond this point of view by Dr. Bruce Lipton, to investigate, how "profound change in belief"  can upset the very foundation of our biological system.

Is Epigenetics Science?

Epigenetic mechanisms are affected by several factors and processes including development in utero and in childhood, environmental chemicals, drugs and pharmaceuticals, aging, and diet. DNA methylation is what occurs when methyl groups, an epigenetic factor found in some dietary sources, can tag DNA and activate or repress genes. Histones are proteins around which DNA can wind for compaction and gene regulation. Histone modification occurs when the binding of epigenetic factors to histone “tails” alters the extent to which DNA is wrapped around histones and the availability of genes in the DNA to be activated. All of these factors and processes can have an effect on people’s health and influence their health possibly resulting in cancer, autoimmune disease, mental disorders, or diabetes among other illnesses. National Institutes of Health

 

 

***

Behavioral epigenetics is the field of study examining the role of epigenetics in shaping animal (including human) behaviour.^[1] It is an experimental science that seeks to explain how nurture shapes nature,^[2] where nature refers to biological heredity^[3] and nurture refers to virtually everything that occurs during the life-span (e.g., social-experience, diet and nutrition, and exposure to toxins).^[2] Behavioral epigenetics attempts to provide a framework for understanding how the expression of genes is influenced by experiences and the environment^[4] to produce individual differences in behaviour,^[5] cognition^[2] personality,^[6] and mental health.^[7][8]

***

Epigenetic gene regulation involves changes other than to the sequence of DNA and includes changes to histones (proteins around which DNA is wrapped) and DNA methylation.^[9] These epigenetic changes can influence the growth of neurons in the developing brain^[10] as well as modify activity of the neurons in the adult brain.^[11][12] Together, these epigenetic changes on neuron structure and function can have a marked influence on an organism's behavior.^[1]

Thalamocortical oscillations can be Affective?

Delta wave
Theta wave
Alpha wave
Mu wave
Beta wave
Gamma wave

Current interest in a presentation given through Stanford in a series of 6 videos had brought up for me the question of what consciousness is. A fundamental recognition of what consciousness is, as it is measured. So we speak about the different frequency ranges that are examined as "attributes of that consciousness."

Thalamocortical oscillation involves the synchronous firing of thalamic and cortical neurons at specific frequencies; in the thalamocortical system, the exact frequencies depend on current brain state and mental activity

The understanding I have in regard to this question is whether we could induce those frequency ranges as an "affect" directly through the thalamus to the whole brain. This so as to bring the whole brain toward coherence.

The human visual pathway. The lateral geniculate nucleus, a region of the thalamus, exhibits thalamocortical oscillation with the visual cortex.[7]

 Thalamocortical oscillation is thought to be responsible for the synchronization of neural activity between different regions of the cortex and is associated with the appearance of specific mental states depending on the frequency range of the most prominent oscillatory activity, gamma most associated with conscious, selective concentration on tasks,[8] learning (perceptual and associative),[9] and short-term memory.[10] Magnetoencephalography (MEG) has been used to show that during conscious perception, gamma-band frequency electrical activity and thalamocortical resonance prominently occurs in the human brain.[2] Absence of these gamma-band patterns correlates with nonconscious states and is characterized by the presence of lower-frequency oscillations instead.Relation to brain activity -Recurrent thalamo-cortical resonance -

 The answering of this question through experimental validation had come through in a couple of what I am regarding as those, which could reach these measured brain states, as in TM, or in use as a binaural method. As listed through the lectures such evidence while directly not attributed to sound, was revealed in a question by a audience member in the last video , We Create Our Reality.

Psychoacoustics is the scientific study of sound perception. More specifically, it is the branch of science studying the psychological and physiological responses associated with sound (including speech and music). It can be further categorized as a branch of psychophysics.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychoacoustics

***

Cymatics

Cymatics (from Greek: κῦμα "wave") is the study of visible sound and vibration, a subset of modal phenomena. Typically the surface of a plate, diaphragm, or membrane is vibrated, and regions of maximum and minimum displacement are made visible in a thin coating of particles, paste, or liquid.[1] Different patterns emerge in the exitatory medium depending on the geometry of the plate and the driving frequency.

A thought had occurred to me a long time ago with regard idea of using  polymerization substances as a technique in order to bring concrete into a orderly and fast solid state process.

This was an answer to how through such a dream period, I observed I had used such a process so as to create designs to incorporate into a lattice screen with which to divide a room.

In the absence of gravity looking to space above  earth,  such molecular arrangements were significant to me about how pureness could have been attained regarding a "crystallization process."

So the thoughts had occurred to me that in a three dimensional context of the chaldni plate(2 dimensional expression) what may be adhering inside any boxed frame of reference to say that it would be "coherent" so as to be brought into a pattern matching this particular sound. How far a leap then too, lets say bring brain coherence into a EEG state of consciousness.

Transcending

As you notice with the following, I upgraded the current thought process of the demonstration of the 6 videos in length,  to suggest an approach to how we see a science develop out of an approach using consciousness.

Well I think most definitely it is an attitude that is born out of a position you adopted for sure.

Here;s the point.....every thing that is discussed in TM is functional without ever having to talking about using of this method.

The underlying sources in recognition of the philosophy is all there and it is academic in it's settings. So they used that to demonstrate the logic of their approach, and ultimate realization to say its all string or its all consciousness as a demonstration of this Unified Field.

There is a ole and ancient philosophy tied to this by correlation which is of Vedic and correlated to a leader of such thought.



Throw the leader aside and the religious association to money making schemes as to set each of us within a intonation, and we go on our way to delving into the relationship of the deeper thinking mind. This capability already exists within our range of thinking if we but learn to relax, sit by a stream or water fall, and you do not have to divest yourself of the reason with which you look at the world.

So the realization that everything is sound, is a conversion process that takes place in the mind as to describing what we have already described in the physics as measure, so we turn our language over to see collisions processes as described this way.

There is nothing wrong with seeing this way as long as you stay with the theoretic and physics of high energy approach.

So resonance in the brain matter, is as an affective state of consciousness,  is a measure of frequency of the brain. Such a measure along side of showing what state your mind is in through different examinations is equally as valid as to the approach of the method of TM,  while recognizing the underlying philosophy of approach.

The attempts of seeing such characters as one might mention in Castaneda as a fictional portrayal at best,  as we have now come to know. Isn't this much like the theory of form as we discuss the method underlying the talk of forms in our approach as we listen to a story that Plato may have written about Socrates?

These forms are like qualitative examinations at the basis of thought become extrapolated to the world at large, so we see literature used to speak about a question and answer,  as we are lead to the forms of the story.

The push toward an answer beyond a certain point in the physics of the big bang is then supplemented with some thing even much deeper then the equations that have taken us to a current time within the expression of the big bang, to realize that all around us now is consciousness in expression, are elements of the language to suggest, that such evidence exists at this very moment all around us.

We might have looked at the latest gravitational foot print to call it B modes in the WMAP? That is a conversion to the application of sound? So what are we saying? That gravity,  is like sound?

Particulates as a measure of the energy  as a frequency of sound. So you see the move to describe matter in another way may have been a revelation of a kind that was lead to a subjective form of reasoning that was deductive. So in that moment, where was consciousness as a measure of the state of the mattered brain as it explored??

AI's State of Affairs

Human-level control through deep reinforcement learning

-The theory of reinforcement learning provides a normative account1, deeply rooted in psychological2 and neuroscientific3 perspectives on animal behaviour, of how agents may optimize their control of an environment. To use reinforcement learning successfully in situations approaching real-world complexity, however, agents are confronted with a difficult task: they must derive efficient representations of the environment from high-dimensional sensory inputs, and use these to generalize past experience to new situations. Remarkably, humans and other animals seem to solve this problem through a harmonious combination of reinforcement learning and hierarchical sensory processing systems4, 5, the former evidenced by a wealth of neural data revealing notable parallels between the phasic signals emitted by dopaminergic neurons and temporal difference reinforcement learning algorithms3. While reinforcement learning agents have achieved some successes in a variety of domains6, 7, 8, their applicability has previously been limited to domains in which useful features can be handcrafted, or to domains with fully observed, low-dimensional state spaces. Here we use recent advances in training deep neural networks9, 10, 11 to develop a novel artificial agent, termed a deep Q-network, that can learn successful policies directly from high-dimensional sensory inputs using end-to-end reinforcement learning. We tested this agent on the challenging domain of classic Atari 2600 games12. We demonstrate that the deep Q-network agent, receiving only the pixels and the game score as inputs, was able to surpass the performance of all previous algorithms and achieve a level comparable to that of a professional human games tester across a set of 49 games, using the same algorithm, network architecture and hyperparameters. This work bridges the divide between high-dimensional sensory inputs and actions, resulting in the first artificial agent that is capable of learning to excel at a diverse array of challenging tasks.

***

This demo follows the description of the Deep Q Learning algorithm described in Playing Atari with Deep Reinforcement Learning, a paper from NIPS 2013 Deep Learning Workshop from DeepMind. The paper is a nice demo of a fairly standard (model-free) Reinforcement Learning algorithm (Q Learning) learning to play Atari games.

In this demo, instead of Atari games, we'll start out with something more simple: a 2D agent that has 9 eyes pointing in different angles ahead and every eye senses 3 values along its direction (up to a certain maximum visibility distance): distance to a wall, distance to a green thing, or distance to a red thing. The agent navigates by using one of 5 actions that turn it different angles. The red things are apples and the agent gets reward for eating them. The green things are poison and the agent gets negative reward for eating them. The training takes a few tens of minutes with current parameter settings.

Over time, the agent learns to avoid states that lead to states with low rewards, and picks actions that lead to better states instead.

***

Code for Human-Level Control through Deep Reinforcement Learning

Please click here to download the code associated with DeepMind's Nature Letter on "Human-Level Control through Deep Reinforcement Learning"

Visualizations are Important

Figure 1: Artist's conception of AdS/CFT. The evolution of the proton at different
length scales is mapped into the compact AdS5 dimension z. Dirichlet bag-like boundary
condition,     (z)jz=z0 = 0, is imposed at the confinement radius z = z0 = 1= QCD,
thus limiting interquark separations.

 

String theorists describe the physics of black holes in five-dimensional space-time. They found that these five-dimensional objects provide a good approximation of the quark-gluon plasma in one fewer dimension, a relationship similar to the one between a three-dimensional object and its two-dimensional shadow. Image: SLAC National Accelerator Laboratory

Recreating the conditions present just after the Big Bang has given experimentalists a glimpse into how the universe formed. Now, scientists have begun to see striking similarities between the properties of the early universe and a theory that aims to unite gravity with quantum mechanics, a long-standing goal for physicists.

“Combining calculations from experiments and theories could help us capture some universal characteristic of nature,” said MIT theoretical physicist Krishna Rajagopal, who discussed these possibilities at the recent Quark Matter conference in Annecy, France.

One millionth of a second after the Big Bang, the universe was a hot, dense sea of freely roaming particles called quarks and gluons. As the universe rapidly cooled, the particles joined together to form protons and neutrons, and the unique state of matter known as quark-gluon plasma disappeared. See: String theory may hold answers about quark-gluon plasma

See Also:

•  A Conformal Field Theory Approach?
• What is Happening at the Singularity?
• Quantum Chromodynamics by David Gross

Justice

Plato prove that justice does not depend upon a chance, convention or upon external force. It is the right condition of the human soul by the very nature of man when seen in the fullness of his environment. It is in this way that Plato condemned the position taken by Glaucon that justice is something which is external. According to Plato, it is internal as it resides in the human soul. "It is now regarded as an inward grace and its understanding is shown to involve a study of the inner man." It is, therefore, natural and no artificial. It is therefore, not born of fear of the weak but of the longing of the human soul to do a duty according to its nature.

Plato's Concept Of Justice: An Analysis Bold was added by me for emphasis.

The element of the syllogism? The Syntax. Any thoughts here then as to semantics, as to what then resides in the human being?

What about merit as to what is to be defined as the gold person, is really about the values a person has? Even though Plato define them as philosophers, I think as if by a natural inclination, we have learnt to judge accordingly, as an understanding of a position with which we assume things to be. To me this may be insightful as to the nature of the individual, that by such introspection learns to understand these character positions.

So I am thinking this is indeed built into an individual, just lost to inspection as to the natures of our characters?

Socratic questioning (or Socratic maieutics)[1] is disciplined questioning that can be used to pursue thought in many directions and for many purposes, including: to explore complex ideas, to get to the truth of things, to open up issues and problems, to uncover assumptions, to analyze concepts, to distinguish what we know from what we don't know, to follow out logical implications of thought or to control the discussion. The key to distinguishing Socratic questioning from questioning per se is that Socratic questioning is systematic, disciplined, deep and usually focuses on fundamental concepts, principles, theories, issues or problems. Socratic questioning is referred to in teaching, and has gained currency as a concept in education particularly in the past two decades.[citation needed] Teachers, students or indeed anyone interested in probing thinking at a deep level can and should construct Socratic questions and engage in these questions.[2] Socratic questioning and its variants has also been extensively used in psychotherapy.

So in reference to what has survived for so many years what is the conceptual law of justice while the idea could have deeper implications to it? How did you come to know what you know, or don't know. So the method for determination? Nicomachean Ethics?


In the larger context of society, what is good governance, as to imply that Descision making, is a critical part of understanding such governance? In a just society, we come to understand the merits of the individual as we would expect good governance to rule, and as such good governance by the individual, becomes good governance of the country

ABSTRACT
Recently the terms "governance" and "good governance" are being increasingly used in development literature. Bad governance is being increasingly regarded as one of the root causes of all evil within our societies. Major donors and international financial institutions are increasingly basing their aid and loans on the condition that reforms that ensure "good governance" are undertaken.

This article tries to explain, as simply as possible, what "governance" and "good governance" means. What is Good Governance?

 In historical context below the question of philosophical arguments. While talking about immortality with regard to Plato, how does this affect judgement in relation to how we may perceive justice.

Opposites Argument 70a–72e. Whatever has an opposite comes to be from its opposite; the cold from the warm, the weaker from the stronger, the sleeping from the waking. Between every pair of opposites there must always be two processes of transformation, e.g. cooling down and warming up, falling asleep and waking up. Living and dead are evidently opposites, and one of the processes between them, namely dying, is evident to us. We may infer that there is a second process by which living things and stuff come from dead things or stuff. This conclusion is taken (by a palpable equivocation on ‘the dead’) to mean that ‘the souls of the dead must be somewhere whence they can come back again’. An appendix argues that if the process from life to death were not matched by a process from death to life, then the original stock of living things would have been exhausted in the infinite past.

Recollection Argument 73a–77e. Our ability to give the right answers in abstract discussions shows that we possess a kind of knowledge (of the Forms, as it happens) that we must have acquired before birth. It follows that ‘our souls existed apart from the body before they took on human form’. That they continue to exist after we die is said to follow by combining this proof with the Opposites Argument outlined above. (On this and the related argument of Plato’s Meno 81 ff. see Innateness in ancient philosophy.)

Resemblance Argument 78b–84b Forms and particulars differ systematically: Forms are invisible, unchanging, uniform and eternal, where particulars are visible, changeable, composite and perishable. The human soul is invisible too, and it investigates Forms without the aid of bodily senses. By ruling a particular body it resembles the divine which rules and leads. Thus the soul is ‘most like the divine, deathless, intelligible, uniform, and indissoluble’. Its uniformity and partlessness exempt it from the decomposition that destroys compounded bodies; for all these reasons we may conclude that it is immortal. (Significantly, it is never claimed that the soul actually is a Form, and the theory of soul-construction in the Timaeus 35 explicitly makes souls a third class of entities distinct from Forms and bodies.) BRENNAN, TAD (2002). Immortality in ancient philosophy. In E. Craig (Ed.), Routledge Encyclopedia of Philosophy. London: Routledge. Retrieved February 22, 2015, from

Bold added for emphasis by me

As per Recollection argument above.....innate does not mean we become stifled and locked into position, but go through experience and instill further innate ideas in to our understanding. The objectified, becomes as part of this life experience. Objectified knowledge becomes part of the cycle regarding what comes with us through another round.

the theory of soul-construction in the Timaeus 35 explicitly makes souls a third class of entities distinct from Forms and bodies. see above link

If not the forms or the body what would they be referring too?

As Plato tells it, the beautiful orderliness of the universe is not only the manifestation of Intellect; it is also the model for rational souls to understand and to emulate. Such understanding and emulation restores those souls to their original state of excellence, a state that was lost in their embodiment. There is, then, an explicit ethical and religious dimension to the discourse. Plato's Timaeus -Zeyl, Donald, "Plato's Timaeus", The Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy (Spring 2014 Edition), Edward N. Zalta (ed.), 

So justice in its examination may suggest that this is a faculty of the the rational mind according to historical context. Any attempts to illicit judgmental affairs as to the state would require a rational mind? What does this mean in the modernization of our cultures so as to express the most desired cultural definition of this return to the rationalistic fervor and recognition of this idea of the receptacle?

Doe this literally mean to create a third person, a judge?

The second main section begins with the introduction of the receptacle, a “third kind” alongside the familiar paradeigmatic forms and the generated images of the forms (49a1–4, 52a8, d2–4). The receptacle appears to have the dual role of serving both as material substratum, and as spatial field. Timaeus' account of the receptacle is elusive and presents several interpretive difficulties, some of which will be discussed below. In the “pre-cosmic” state (the state “prior to” the intervention of the Craftsman) the receptacle is subject to erratic and disorderly motions, and its contents are mere “traces” (ichnê, 53b2) of the subsequently articulated four “kinds” (the so-called elements): fire, air, water and earth. The Craftsman begins by constructing four of the regular solids as the primary corpuscles of each of these four kinds. These solids have faces that are made up (ultimately) of two types of right-angled triangles—the half-equilateral and the isosceles—and it is these triangles that are the ultimate “simples” of the physics of the dialogue. Because their triangles are similar (half-equilateral), only corpuscles of fire, air and water may be transformed into one another. Each of the four kinds has properties that are determined by the constitution of their respective corpuscles, and these properties in turn determine how the particles act upon and react to one another. (It is here that Necessity plays its important role in Timaeus' account.) Plato's Timaeus -Zeyl, Donald, "Plato's Timaeus", The Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy (Spring 2014 Edition), Edward N. Zalta (ed.),.

A judge would have to over come disorderliness and exemplify the quest for rationalism. If these attributes are innate, what would the third person represent as if we were to sit in judgement of the life we had lived. How would we weight our souls truth of the rational mind to something that is of greater truth and import, as if to find it weighed against something else? The golden heart against some philosophical weighed universal truth as a feather. How deep and significant this challenge in our own lives?

I am really trying to decipher "the meaning" of Justice.

As a mechanism, this may imply, an objective method toward a subjective ideal as we hope to evolve. A rationalistic mind would be then gifted with morality? You'd already be gifted as to make the right choice? If I am to take your meaning further then?

Yes, I am thinking beyond, toward a definition of Justice as to the individual, and, in context of morality, then, how is it the same as Justice. Would you have used small groups, large groups, small towns and large cities. If the essence of this justice is innate, so to as morality, then, it would not matter where the individual is?

If, I was to propose a question without let's say the data base with which to respond to this question, then, what answer is given, The answer is based on what? Discard everything you've learned. What is Justice?

So the evolving question regarding morality is an experience of this life yes? Or, is that something which is innate and linguistically overridden. Culturally and linguistically, you learned the language of your small town, big city which would have to be discarded or set as, semantics to the original meaning of Justice.

So as Universal Declaration in Preamble to the Charter, leads to article one.

All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.Universal Declaration of Human Rights -

Bold added for emphasis by me.

To be able "to reason" would mean having the capacity for understanding Justice? So was it right to say Justice has some first order logic to it so as to declare it as a universal law? Are we all gifted with rationalism?

 Brain scans link concern for justice with reason, not emotion - See more at: http://news.uchicago.edu/article/201...-emotion#.dpuf

I think it is more a recognition of something that already exists in you, our side of the small town, big town, that an insight as to the nature of this attribute, is how we as a soul may weight these things. This as to how a soul accomplishes from one life to the next. It has to be an inherent feature, for the idea of the rules(arguments) as listed earlier, to become an ideal.

So if you accept a NDE as part and parcel of the innate feature of our human condition then what attribute of the human mind would seek to accomplish that which we had taken to burden in this phase of our life being lived now? Are you living the truth with which you weigh against something to be defined as a "universal truth." How would you know this? How would you know what this truth is for you, is a process which all human would seek to verify, set as as a accomplishment as to having successful been living with that truth in order to say they indeed had lived life to this universal truth.

We would see an extroverted and objectified example of societies and not an internal perception, as to the nature of this judgement which may be held in abeyance until more information came through.

If you take in the picture of Raphael's school of Athens where do you see Plato pointing too. So to me, as a central figure, is a point exemplified as to what the soul is versus the body, as Aristotle with this ancient view expresses, as the body expressing mind. Seeing physically, all that is around you. Such an idea of balance in the world would have been a recognition of that which would become self evident through this interplay between Plato and Aristotle. This to exemplify this middle of the road. So it could not be Plato alone that Raphael wish to express, but something that required both, in order for the interaction of the world to allow something to become self evident. And, a leap of mind

I brought up the latest research of the manufacture of the thought body as something separate and manageable from the way in which we could create this third person. To free one self of the reins of the physicals as to explore with consciousness as one travels to what ever destination.....looses sight of this thought body.

But more importantly, there are these archetypes which we create, where as some form of this can be and is realized when we recognize higher consciousness as a functioning of this wisdom imparted within the dream world, to suggest, that this is wisdom of your own soul that sits in Judgement.

So such a model of this Justice would have to exist in my view, so as to impart something greater then a judgement in the natural world of the objectified, but truly opens the door to what we as humans also come into the world as retaining this pattern towards living of this life now. Your internal third person and guidance. Call it the higher self maybe?

This meta-cognitive view then would have relinquished the mind to a form, that mind leaps toward something of a more spiritual kind, not just deductive faculties in the state of Justice as explained in the natural world and objectified. Not just ethics and moral virtues.......but a history to draw from, and a spiritual one at that. But how fine and rarefied such a mind to leap where, and then we are back in the world.

Plato's Problem

Anamnesis

Meno

The claim is that one does not need to know what knowledge is before gaining knowledge, but rather one has a wealth of knowledge before ever gaining any experience

Perception and judging while decisive with regard to an attribute gifted of reason, shows what the person by character exemplifies according to this attributes judging or withholding judging until more information is attainable.

Brain scans link concern for justice with reason, not emotion - See more at: http://news.uchicago.edu/article/201...-emotion#.dpuf

Is Justice blind to the individual acting from innate abilities and carry overs who decides quickly? I can show from previous link this is not an emotive thing happening when given reasonable thought about Justice as brain is used with respect to the MRI and brain activity......so we use the body as a residual affect of what our consciousness does?

Yes I am aware now if taken from Plato alone......a revision in the Church then, and we may see Aristotle as to what exist around us as a focal point in the same person. This as a question about what is innate then and we listen to all the reasons why through inductive and deductive efforts......but indeed, we are talking about something else here. About the type of knowledge that a soul has gained from the incarnations versus what is gained from data in this life.

Socratic questioning (or Socratic maieutics)[1] is disciplined questioning that can be used to pursue thought in many directions and for many purposes, including: to explore complex ideas, to get to the truth of things, to open up issues and problems, to uncover assumptions, to analyze concepts, to distinguish what we know from what we don't know, to follow out logical implications of thought or to control the discussion. The key to distinguishing Socratic questioning from questioning per se is that Socratic questioning is systematic, disciplined, deep and usually focuses on fundamental concepts, principles, theories, issues or problems.

Socratic questioning is referred to in teaching, and has gained currency as a concept in education particularly in the past two decades.[citation needed] Teachers, students or indeed anyone interested in probing thinking at a deep level can and should construct Socratic questions and engage in these questions.[2] Socratic questioning and its variants has also been extensively used in psychotherapy.

So in reference to what has survived for so many years what is the conceptual law of justice while the idea could have deeper implications to it? How did you come to know what you know, or don't know. So the method for determination? Nicomachean Ethics?

Aristotle as a central figure in the picture of Raphael, was a response to Plato. It was a revision that philosophical may have been thought of by Raphael to exemplify the attributes of the Church at that point in time. This so as to question the significance of what evolved in the Church as well, as to what becomes self evident eventually requires a leap of mind.

Socrates
Socratic method
Socratic questioning

Meno (/ˈmiːnoʊ/; Greek: Μένων) is a Socratic dialogue written by Plato.

Bold and underline added by me for emphasis

The theme of the work is the Socratic question which had previously been explored in the works of Plato, Aristotle's friend and teacher, of how men should best live. In his Metaphysics, Aristotle described how Socrates, the friend and teacher of Plato, had turned philosophy to human questions, whereas Pre-Socratic philosophy had only been theoretical. Ethics, as now separated out for discussion by Aristotle, is practical rather than theoretical, in the original Aristotelian senses of these terms.[1] In other words, it is not only a contemplation about good living, because it also aims to create good living. It is therefore connected to Aristotle's other practical work, the Politics, which similarly aims at people becoming good. Ethics is about how individuals should best live, while the study of politics is from the perspective of a law-giver, looking at the good of a whole community.Nicomachean Ethics -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicomachean_Ethics

For what purpose? To be able to arrive at some distinction about what we know and how we know it or some relevance to the way in which some knowledge is innate, or that learned in this life by living it now?

Book V: Justice and Fairness: a moral virtue needing special discussionParticular justice is however the subject of this book, and it has already been divided into the lawful and the fair, which are two different aspects of universal justice or complete virtue. Concerning areas where being law-abiding might not be the same as being fair, Aristotle says that this should be discussed under the heading of Politics.[73] He then divides particular justice further into two parts: distribution of divisible goods and rectification in private transactions. The first part relates to members of a community in which it is possible for one person to have more or less of a good than another person. The second part of particular justice deals with rectification in transactions and this part is itself divided into two parts: voluntary and involuntary, and the involuntary are divided further into furtive and violent divisions.[74] The following chart showing divisions with Aristotle's discussion of Justice in Book V, based on Burger (2008) Appendix 3.

Justice in the City, or Justice in the soul(Appendix 3)?

In several of Plato's dialogues, Socrates promulgates the idea that knowledge is a matter of recollection, and not of learning, observation, or study.[46] He maintains this view somewhat at his own expense, because in many dialogues, Socrates complains of his forgetfulness. Socrates is often found arguing that knowledge is not empirical, and that it comes from divine insight. In many middle period dialogues, such as the Phaedo, Republic and Phaedrus Plato advocates a belief in the immortality of the soul, and several dialogues end with long speeches imagining the afterlife. More than one dialogue contrasts knowledge and opinion, perception and reality, nature and custom, and body and soul.Recurrent themes -

Is divine insight a leap of mind then, so as to arrive a some conclusion? We see such attributes of the historical overlay by today's world of events. We use systemic versions of historical significance to arrive at a understanding of where we are today, and in this sense we can talk about what survived and didn't survive. It is all in context of the virtual reality of this discussion? How relevant is it to today's world? Maybe, just write a virtual dialogue to help understand the spiritual essence of the principle of the divine as one takes that leap of mind?

I think we are arriving some consensus here even though we point to this dialogue, point to the writer of the dialogue, and raise the issues of the deeper questions about the relevance of Justice in today's world. About what people are talking about in regards to Reincarnation, or, about the raising of the dead, as a metaphor for what we can arise too?? Are these "good virtues" to have been given are the dialogues that verge on the ephemeral?

How strange that not only that such a perception might have saw a foundational method toward an attribute of the forms could have survived as a subject regarding quasi-crystals as to this underlying feature theorized so many years ago. But so too, much more then the survivability of a method by which we question and arrive at, a place in mind?

Just quickly, if no one told you how "to reason," how would you know to be able to do this? If you did not have this life experience, as of the now, then can we reason? Self evident or leap of mind is a position, which allows access to information that is intuited and comes from the soul?

Sure we can create false things so as to believe, describe a experience that doesn't match the events of say as a journalist, but we are talking about access to something else here. So you do have experience, but it comes from the soul?

If you are a good writer of the dialogues what survives by your example of the archetype as you become aware of it. What survived of Plato's writings? What survived of Socrates in Plato's writings.

Rationalists generally develop their view in two ways. First, they argue that there are cases where the content of our concepts or knowledge outstrips the information that sense experience can provide. Second, they construct accounts of how reason in some form or other provides that additional information about the world. Empiricists present complementary lines of thought. First, they develop accounts of how experience provides the information that rationalists cite, insofar as we have it in the first place. (Empiricists will at times opt for skepticism as an alternative to rationalism: if experience cannot provide the concepts or knowledge the rationalists cite, then we don't have them.) Second, empiricists attack the rationalists' accounts of how reason is a source of concepts or knowledge. SEE: Markie, Peter, "Rationalism vs. Empiricism http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/ra...sm-empiricism/ , The Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy (Summer 2013 Edition), Edward N. Zalta (ed.),

Do you see a dichotomy within the way you are seeing? Point to the collective unconscious....where is that?

Michael Newton talks about his journey to his Past Life Therapy practice. Filmed in 2007 and finally uploaded for you all to see this amazing guy.

http://youtu.be/Fk3s40UnoDE

How would reason then manifest within context of any archetype given, that we would sit to reason according to the archetype our subconscious presents? Would there not be a difference between what you observe "as the archetype" that is present(the awareness of your lucid dreaming where recognition as EGO manifests[remember you are the story teller.]), versus, living the experience of the person?

If the late character of our sources may incite us to doubt the authenticity of this tradition, there remains that, in its spirit, it is in no way out of character, as can be seen by reading or rereading what Plato says about the sciences fit for the formation of philosophers in book VII of the Republic, and especially about geometry at Republic, VII, 526c8-527c11. We should only keep in mind that, for Plato, geometry, as well as all other mathematical sciences, is not an end in itself, but only a prerequisite meant to test and develop the power of abstraction in the student, that is, his ability to go beyond the level of sensible experience which keeps us within the "visible" realm, that of the material world, all the way to the pure intelligible. And geometry, as can be seen through the experiment with the slave boy in the Meno (Meno, 80d1-86d2), can also make us discover the existence of truths (that of a theorem of geometry such as, in the case of the Meno, the one about doubling a square) that may be said to be "transcendant" in that they don't depend upon what we may think about them, but have to be accepted by any reasonable being, which should lead us into wondering whether such transcendant truths might not exist as well in other areas, such as ethics and matters relating to men's ultimate happiness, whether we may be able to "demonstrate" them or not. See: Frequently Asked Questions about Plato by Bernard SUZANNE

Bold added for emphasis by me.

Secondly, I would ask that you pay attention to what you presented as frequency and energy, so as to see its use in the way in which Newton speaks. Is deeper in alpha or theta, really "out there in the world, or, inside the person"? Is the soul inside or outside the person?

Alva Noë - Why is Consciousness so baffling?

What is Consciousness? Why are we still baffled by this question? Our host Robert Lawrence Kuhn asks Alva Noë, in an interview from our series "Closer To Truth," currently airing on PBS stations nationwide. Check your local listings for air times.
For more videos and information, visit http://www.closertotruth.com

http://youtu.be/1aPeWc7Um1A

We've Been Looking for Consciousness in Wrong Place-Alva Noë
Getting Out of Our Heads - Alva Noë

The value of non-Euclidean geometry lies in its ability to liberate us from preconceived ideas in preparation for the time when exploration of physical laws might demand some geometry other than the Euclidean. Bernhard Riemann

In a projective sense(into the eye to the back of the brain) Alva Noe may referring to experience as if to include, the back of the apple as more then a direct examination......would include another form of experience, a wider view as if to see more then from this projective sense of being.

The way in which I see this expository view unfold is to recognize the geometry as higher versions being exemplified to include a explanation of Alva Noe's view as to the nature of consciousness as more then a restricted view. Alva I feel is speaking to that which rests in the sensorial world of the projected, as an inner expression of the outside world. But now more too, a "meta cognitive view." I see the question pushing the "boundaries of this limited projected view, " as less then what Alva Noe is speaking too.

It brings to mind what is suggested of Meno, as to the larger capacity of what Plato wrote of in the story of Meno with regard to the abstract. The quote above, as to suggest, Riemann is exemplary as well.

If the late character of our sources may incite us to doubt the authenticity of this tradition, there remains that, in its spirit, it is in no way out of character, as can be seen by reading or rereading what Plato says about the sciences fit for the formation of philosophers in book VII of the Republic, and especially about geometry at Republic, VII, 526c8-527c11. We should only keep in mind that, for Plato, geometry, as well as all other mathematical sciences, is not an end in itself, but only a prerequisite meant to test and develop the power of abstraction in the student, that is, his ability to go beyond the level of sensible experience which keeps us within the "visible" realm, that of the material world, all the way to the pure intelligible..... See: Frequently Asked Questions about Plato by Bernard SUZANNE

Bold added by me for emphasis.

These 4 stages also correspond to Plato's 4 levels of understanding, as described in his Analog of the Divided Line.

Tabular summary of the Divided Line

Segment	Type of knowledge or opinion	Affection of the psyche	Type of object	Method of the psyche or eye	Relative truth and reality
DE	Noesis (νόησις)	Knowledge: understanding of only the Intelligible (νοητόν)	Only Ideas, which are all given existence and truth by the Good itself (τὸ αὐτὸ ἀγαθόν)	The Psyche examines all hypotheses by the Dialectic making no use of likenesses, always moving towards a First Principle	Highest
CD	Dianoia (διάνοια)	Knowledge: thought that recognizes but is not only of the Intelligible	Some Ideas, specifically those of Geometry and Number	The Psyche assumes hypotheses while making use of likenesses, always moving towards final conclusions	High
BC	Pistis (πίστις)	Opinion: belief concerning visible things	visible things (ὁρατά)	The eye makes probable predictions upon observing visible things	low
AB	Eikasia (εἰκασία)	Opinion: conjectures concerning likenesses	likenesses of visible things (εἰκόνες)	The eye makes guesses upon observing likenesses of visible things	lowest

The Stage 1s argue and understand in terms of Eikasia.

The Stage 2s argue and understand in terms of Pistis.

The Stage 3s argue and understand in terms of Dianoia.

The Stage 4s argue and understand in terms of Noesis.

Socrates asks Glaucon to not only envision this unequally bisected line but to imagine further bisecting each of the two segments. Socrates explains that the four resulting segments represent four separate 'affections' (παθήματα) of the psyche. The lower two sections are said to represent the visible while the higher two are said to represent the intelligible. These affections are described in succession as corresponding to increasing levels of reality and truth from conjecture (εἰκασία) to belief (πίστις) to thought (διάνοια) and finally to understanding (νόησις). Furthermore this Analogy not only elaborates a theory of the psyche but also presents metaphysical and epistemological views. Analogy of the Divided Line -

Maybe in the context of what Justice is to mean in the larger context of the idea as a first principle. Applying any search to the "inherent truth" is as much a trail as that toward what the language spoken by you, is to ascertain as being your truth. So we all recognize that, and recognize your bias......and for some of us it is an understanding of the process itself as you speak toward your truth.

Plato describes "The Form of the Good", or more literally "the idea of the good" (ἡ τοῦ ἀγαθοῦ ἰδέα), in his dialogue the Republic (508e2–3), speaking through the character of Socrates. Plato introduces several forms in his works, but identifies the Form of the Good as the superlative. This form is the one that allows a philosopher-in-training to advance to a philosopher-king. It can not be clearly seen or explained, but once it is recognized, it is the form that allows one to realize all the other forms. Form of the Good

Bold added for emphasis

Plato identifies how the Form of the Good allows for the cognizance to understand such difficult concepts as justice. He identifies knowledge and truth as important, but through Socrates (508d–e) says, “good is yet more prized”. He then proceeds to explain “although the good is not being” it is “superior to it in rank and power”, it is what “provides for knowledge and truth” (508e).[1] Usages in The Republic -