Sean Carroll has a interesting set of four entires about the backwardness of the arrow of time and how it would appear. This is an interesting exercise for me on how perception about the current direction of the universe could have represented "the Egg before the chicken" scenarios.
Incompatible Arrows, I: Martin Amis
Incompatible Arrows, II: Kurt Vonnegut
Incompatible Arrows, III: Lewis Carroll
Incompatible Arrows, IV: F. Scott Fitzgerald
Chicken or Egg
Illustration from Tacuina sanitatis, Fourteenth century See the Blog posting Incompatible ArrowsIt is important that one sees where Sean Carroll's mind has been and how the current article in Scientific Magazine reflects the writing in that article. You may read his current article but does one really understand it? You have to take in much more then just the article itself, and yes concepts are assumed here, that others might be on the same page, and again, this is, and has been, my mistake as I seemingly become cryptic I've elevated the correlations in mind.
What came before? Time, becomes asymmetric from some perfect order an this is a higher entropic valuation assigned to equilibrium that has to remain fixed in my mind. So, shall we call it symmetry breaking?
Having pointed out the context of "another universe" the very idea that time can run backwards in that other universe one is safe to consider such things by such appointment?:) S I introduce consciousness because by it's very nature , it will reveal the "mathematical framework" that arises from a "cognitive function" that resides there.
I know over at Stefan and Bee's place, we had talked about this quite a bit and this has induced the questions about time, and all the ideas and information shared, has created the wonder about this subject for me. Not that you shall forget that "symmetry breaking" is part of an assumption too, that what existed at one time has a more perfect substance to it, yet, how could the beginning and end become cyclical if we did not tie up both ends?
The title of this blog post was written because I believe it is possible for our consciousness to be able to go into the future, and while there, see the previews of what shall become an aspect of the soul in it's future developments, based on what it has done now.
I know that people like Bee are becoming bored to tears about Past lives, and the Afterlife, but the philosophy I am sharing is based on the picture of the early Egyptian history, and the Hall of Ma'at.
You did not know that as Plato I was privy to the Egyptian mysteries?:) Okay, just assume so, and once you can grasp the principal of "the heart and feather," Tell me then, how it can be applied to your life. The principles you hold. Then, you come back and tell me, that with this knowledge, why you cannot see the future written? An "assumption" detailed by an organizational ability in your own subconscious puts you into this room. A place and time, with which our apprehensions would dictate the outcome of measure, just by, the retention of being, and becoming.
Where is such a place? Other universes?:) Okay now how indeed such comparative features and a place to stand that I would speak contradictory to what Sean Carroll is saying and all of science? Crackpot possibly:)
Kenn Brown-Scientific AmericaDoes Time Run Backward in Other Universes? by Sean Carroll
Among the unnatural aspects of the universe, one stands out: time asymmetry. The microscopic laws of physics that underlie the behavior of the universe do not distinguish between past and future, yet the early universe—hot, dense, homogeneous—is completely different from today’s—cool, dilute, lumpy. The universe started off orderly and has been getting increasingly disorderly ever since. The asymmetry of time, the arrow that points from past to future, plays an unmistakable role in our everyday lives: it accounts for why we cannot turn an omelet into an egg, why ice cubes never spontaneously unmelt in a glass of water, and why we remember the past but not the future. And the origin of the asymmetry we experience can be traced all the way back to the orderliness of the universe near the big bang. Every time you break an egg, you are doing observational cosmology.
It is easy then for the intellectual mind to be able to grasp, that while Sean has not seen this potential in regards to the "backward arrow of time in other universe" now contained in this one, I would say, that I am introducing this possibility currently, as a function not only of that past which has been written and recorded, but, of the future as well, basing this on the current values of the universe speedinng up.
Hi Plato,
ReplyDelete“The asymmetry of time, the arrow that points from past to future, plays an unmistakable role in our everyday lives: it accounts for why we cannot turn an omelet into an egg, why ice cubes never spontaneously unmelt in a glass of water, and why we remember the past but not the future.”
Now this I understand, for in a universe where time ran the other direction they say to remember “ If you want to make a few eggs one must be unprepared to unscramble a omelet”. :-)
Best,
Phil
ORIGIN OF UNIVERSE- A NEW PRINCIPLE
ReplyDeletePropounded by Dr. Hari Om, Sr. Scientist Agronomy CCS HAU, Hisar (Kurukshetra)
According to this principle, which is called 'Principle of Cipher Zone', the universe was originated in a series of four steps, i.e., four sub-principles are involved in this process. These sub-principles explain the origin of universe, its dissolution, basis of its expansion and status of energy in a star.
The Principle of Cipher Zone propounds that the theory of 'Big Bang' is not responsible for the origin of universe, but this process advanced in a series of steps, which did not involve any vast explosion of the energy like Big Bang. It started as the process of formation of a star initiates. Today, the completion of this process takes lesser ?time' as it was taken for the formation of first star, because in the present universe, the material required for the formation of a star becomes readily available, but initially it was not so and this process proceeded very slowly. When the energy of this first star was burnt, it converted into a black hole; but before this conversion, the process of the formation of other stars and planets was initiated and they started revolving around this initially appeared central star. In this way along with the central black hole (converted from the first star) the surrounding stars also formed their own families and kept on revolving around the central black hole. Slowly and slowly, the first Milky Way came into existence. The black hole, which was initially formed, now occupied the central space of the first Milky Way thus formed and simultaneously this central black hole of the central Milky Way went on increasing its size by feeding the surrounding old stars. This way, other Milky Ways also came into existence around the central Milky Way and started revolving around it. All these later formed milky ways also had their own central black holes and found their base of stability from the initially formed central black hole and the central Milky Way like a string tied to the neck of the surrounding Milky Ways with the central one. When all the surrounding black holes merged into the initially formed gigantic black hole, the whole of the universe realized dissolution i.e. Maha Pralya.
Now after dissolution, there remained only one universal black hole in which the energy of the whole universe turned into waves of almost compatible character with a stable centre of least moving energy having very dense core at the centre. Slowly and slowly the fast moving energy present at the periphery of this black hole went sluggish and slowed down which got scattered with the passage of time. The movement of the energy at the periphery gets faster and faster upto when the outside material in the form of stars, planets, or Milky Ways remains available for feeding, but it starts slowing down once the whole material is immersed in the central universal black hole. In this way, the whole black hole scattered with the passage of time. After that, the process the creation again started. These two processes of creation and dissolution proceed simultaneously through the creation of new stars and galaxies at the outer periphery and simultaneous dissolution of stars and surrounding galaxies into the central black hole of the central galaxy.
The expansion of universe is also not due to Big Bang, but it is attributed to the size of the continuously increasing black hole at the centre of the Milky Ways. As the size of the central black hole increases, the expansion as well as the speed of the Milky Ways running away from the centre will go on increasing, but a time will come when the outer expansion will be ceased due to extraneous increase in the size of black hole or we can say that increasing density of the central black hole will not allow the further expansion of the galaxy. The incoming energy of the system will dominate over the outgoing energy. With this advancement in the increase of the black hole size, the whole universe will fall and rest in the centre. Every existence or system has a zone of neutral energy at its centre and in its surrounding where its energy ends and the periphery of another system starts. When these two neutral energy zones are merged into one, then the system or existence ceases to work and collapses or we can say that the differential strata of energy of that system are converted into more compatible and unified form of energy or we can say that it is the expansion of the central zone of neutral energy which compels that system to collapse. During the process of expansion, the central zone or black holes of different galaxies goes on increasing. This increase in the area and density of black holes in the middle of the galaxies allow the expansion of the galaxies. The ratio of increase in the area or volume of the black holes in relation to the expansion of outgoing and expanding energy can be assessed with the increase in the ratio of expansion of the nucleus of an atom and the overall expansion of that atom in the form of its mass and energy.
The working of the system depends on the presence of energy at different levels and the inter- and intra-facial tension in those energy fields. When these fields are merged together, the system collapses or dissolved. In this way, the different systems or existences either small or large are converted into energy waves and this way the process of dissolution proceeds until a sole, gigantic and universal zone of neutral energy or Cipher Zone is formed, which brings the final dissolution.
This present theory also refutes the finding that a star has the maximum temperature at its core. This theory propounds that a star has highly peaceful zone at its centre; it is not explosive. Every star or system has two types of energy; incoming and outgoing, working entirely at different level and in different direction. The larger is the system or existence, the greater it will have the zone of neutral energy at its centre i.e. a peaceful zone providing stable base to the whole system. The greater is the expansion of the zone of peace and stability at the centre, the more explosive or vibrating will be the surface energy either it is a star like Sun or vast ocean or galaxy. This is true only when the star or the system is composed of similar type of energy at its centre. If the system, like earth, has different type of energy particles at different levels, then the energy will be explosive at its core because of the admixture of different form of energy in the central zone. This is due to the interfacial stress among different types of energy resting at the same level.
The central zone is nothing but the zone of neutrality, the zone of satisfied energy either it is at the level of smallest particle existing as an atom or largest systems like sea, star or galaxy. The unsatisfied or vibrating or tension creating charge at the surface is the result of the degree of vastness of the internal satisfied power of the system; if measured at the surface of the sea, there is a possibility of the prediction of future rains and devastating thunderstorms or catastrophic Tsunami outbursts. This charge may have its impact on the El-NiƱo effect and difference of temperature in seawater. If it is measured inside the earth, there can be a possibility of the prediction of earthquakes.
Radhasoami
DR . HARIOM , SR . SCIENTIST – AGRONOMY , CCSHAU – HISAR (KURUKSHETRA)TO ASK hariomkvk@gmail.com jasdeep.sindhu@gmail.com& PLZ VISIT TO KNOW MORE www.radhasoamitaradham.com
Phil,
ReplyDeleteDid you read the whole article?
Hi Plato,
ReplyDelete“Did you read the whole article?”
Yes I did read the whole article; in fact I always read all articles before I comment. You take me wrong if you think my attempt at levity was made to ridicule as it was only just that some levity. As to you believing that the future can be remembered and not just the past, I would say could be possible and would depend on if an aspect of mind is truly capable to exist beyond the physical and that there is any sense in saying such. One thing I can tell you, with being a Bohmian it has this to remain an open question and one that is to be taken seriously. If you actually are ever to read Bohm you will discover this, as he talks of the implicate order, enfoldment and the realm of the possible. This is also consistent with much of Plato’s philosophy and even more strangely Aristotle’s as well. For the relationship of chance as in regards to outcome can be understood consistent in the recognition of holism and what this may truly represent to be.
Best,
Phil
Phil:If you actually are ever to read Bohm you will discover this, as he talks of the implicate order, enfoldment and the realm of the possible.
ReplyDeleteI do actually take this seriously Phil:)
I was trying to remember the date that Bohm's book came to my attention. I knowing, that I thought so many years about science, I believe that he is part of my foundational perspective even though I do think outside the box.
I think sometimes he can be compared to the "soliton" the wave and how a boat's bow, has this wave in front of it. While such intersections of wave lengths are of elemental consideration, I have moved his meaning, "before" the wave by offering word association.
the world is assumed to be constituted of a set of separately existent, indivisible and unchangeable 'elementary particles', which are the fundamental 'building blocks' of the entire universe … there seems to be an unshakable faith among physicists that either such particles, or some other kind yet to be discovered, will eventually make possible a complete and coherent explanation of everything" (Bohm, 1980, p. 173).
Well here's the thing, by going back and reading what you have had to say, and my trying to understand the Bohemians( am I mixing up the word with Bohmian?) view it has come to my attention that part of the foundational perspective I have does come from him.
Now as you must know by now, " by my inclinations" I did read some work by Krishnamurti, but it has long since past that I could say that even having read the book, that any philosophy that was shared has merged into the framework of who I am, just as Bohm's did. I wanted to understand this relationship with Bohm.
Now I have tried to show you where my thinking has included "his thinking" in how I percieved Lagrangian's "position in space," as a elemental view of the congregations of bulk perspective by "an assumption" of merging gravity and light together.
Colour of gravity then takes on a whole new meaning in a coordinated framework. Boxed, as a energy configuration, take the boundaries away, and they no longer exist at that point once gravity and light are merged, as everything now takes on this new "conceptual light."
It depends on what "wholeness" means to you Phil. Maybe you should explain this so I understand your perspective and what this means in your take of things, as they are expressed as this Bohmian.
I read much on "wholeness" and the underlying attempt that each soul pushes toward. I talk a lot about this Phil here in a psychological/philosphical regard in this site. With regards to science as well.
Mandalas, Liminocentric structures etc.
Looking for this foundational perspective, is part of understanding what each scientist is after. It is very deep amidst their thinking minds that they may call themselves atheist and the kind, but there is always this struggle for meaning that evades them, and yet, they have it in them.
Hi Plato,
ReplyDelete“It depends on what "wholeness" means to you Phil. Maybe you should explain this so I understand your perspective and what this means in your take of things, as they are expressed as this Bohmian.”
It gladdens me to see the discussion has returned to things I can understand and relate to. However, your discussion of inside and outside the box thinking still leaves me somewhat dismayed, as it is a creation of marketers and therefore primarily relates to “spin” and not “substance”.
That aside, you asked me what wholeness means to me, which is a good question and yet is a question with which I still struggle and yet have some to say. I have eluded to this before and now include to mention others with mention of Cantor and the Aleph, Mandelbrot and chaos with structure born of complexity, Susskind’s supersymmetry and the hologram of reality, Einstein and space-time, Bohr with the complementary, Heisenberg inseparable momentum and position, Penrose and spin foams, Witten and branes of string, Smolin and loops and finally Bohm and the indivisible whole with its implicate order. They all seem to be different and at times conflicting and competing theories to describe reality and yet they carry a common theme and that being wholeness displaying inseparability in some respect and yet divergent at another, with symmetry and economy pointing inescapably to their truth.
The journey has been long since the days of Plato, Aristotle and others and yet the path to truth has never altered. Beyond this vision I have found no other or profess to know beyond. Therefore, this is my box and if it this is to be considered too limited, I can only admit it to be so.
Best,
Phil
Phil:However, your discussion of inside and outside the box thinking still leaves me somewhat dismayed, as it is a creation of marketers and therefore primarily relates to “spin” and not “substance”.
ReplyDeleteIt's one of those things I have mistakenly lead you on, by not being clearer, and I do not want to spend much more time there as long as you are not seeing the fullscope of what I am seeing.
While meme's are created and we used the titles of "in the box" or "out of the box," there is a deeper recognition of what people who think outside are really saying when it comes to sciences and it's reaches.
Clifford of Asymptotia:Physicist are attracted by the idea of showing that the types of 3+1 dimensional models and equations which regular cosmologists study actually have their origins “outside the box,” in the larger setting….
This quote was given specifically to help you understand what is being said in this regard.
Phil:They all seem to be different and at times conflicting and competing theories to describe reality and yet they carry a common theme and that being wholeness displaying inseparability in some respect and yet divergent at another, with symmetry and economy pointing inescapably to their truth.
Now onto what you reveal of yourself. I appreciate it, that by doing this, you are revealing the scope of what transpires from your judgements.
That you would again point to "truth" is of course the most honourable thing, and yet, you will have to move forward and explain to me the associations pointed out and define each case as to the substance of this truth, as you have come to perceive it.
It's only fair that if one sits in judgement as to cast such a commercial light on something as spin that they be ready to enlighten what is easily cast aside according to that truth.
In the future I will be presenting another post which will help to "enlighten" my position some more as well, shed some light on people who gather in these rooms.
Sorry rushed right now.